Hello everyone!.
So we have a sound rig that consists of gear from PK Sound PK Sound
We have 4 CX800 PK Sound - Professional Audio Systems & Production
and 4 CX215/60's PK Sound - Professional Audio Systems & Production
I'm looking to expand the rig by adding more bass bins. My background with enclosure design is in custom Car Audio/ SPL competitions I'm fairly new to Pro Audio. I need some guidance on integrating different enclosure designs. The PK enclosures contain 18sound drivers in a Band Pass configuration.
What I'm wanting to do is create an enclosure around B&C 21SW152-4's that dig lower and have more output then these PK enclosures. Looking to create enclosures for 4 of these B&C drivers that my current PK enclosures would stack on top of.
I'm looking at Tapped Horn designs but I'm not 100% sure if mixing different enclosures like this is wise or if I should just build bandpass boxes utilizing the plans from 18sound for their 21' drivers.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
So we have a sound rig that consists of gear from PK Sound PK Sound
We have 4 CX800 PK Sound - Professional Audio Systems & Production
and 4 CX215/60's PK Sound - Professional Audio Systems & Production
I'm looking to expand the rig by adding more bass bins. My background with enclosure design is in custom Car Audio/ SPL competitions I'm fairly new to Pro Audio. I need some guidance on integrating different enclosure designs. The PK enclosures contain 18sound drivers in a Band Pass configuration.
What I'm wanting to do is create an enclosure around B&C 21SW152-4's that dig lower and have more output then these PK enclosures. Looking to create enclosures for 4 of these B&C drivers that my current PK enclosures would stack on top of.
I'm looking at Tapped Horn designs but I'm not 100% sure if mixing different enclosures like this is wise or if I should just build bandpass boxes utilizing the plans from 18sound for their 21' drivers.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
It is not.. so you would be advised to simply add more of what you already have or trade them in on another model that goes lower.
I'm an avid DIY guy myself as well as a long time pro sound owner/operator, my experience tells me that you can build a box that will deliver more lowend extension.. that is the easy part. The hard part is making it live though a night with a DJ flogging it mercilessly, that is where some advanced DSP programming comes in and unfortunately you won't know what the limits of the drivers are until you melt a few of them.. which can get expensive. So bottom line is you are not likely to exceed the "total performance package"(output, extension, durability) available from a self powered box like these from PK Sound with a DIY effort unless you happen to find a design that somebody has already built and tested to failure and you spring for top shelf amplifiers with state of the art DSP processing to power them and you plug in the setting that have been custom designed for the above design during that destructive testing.
Anything short of that and you will either be leaving a lot of potential output on the table.. wasting your money, or blowing a lot of drivers.. wasting your money in another way.
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If those PK specs are correct, for PA-applications that's already a pretty deep frequency response. You'll find not many PA-designs go much below 30 Hz. Do you have by any chance measured the response or more information on the exact BP configuration? It might be that it doesn't sound as low as it goes.
I've used some tapped horns in the past, that went down to 20 Hz for both parties and HT. For HT they were excellent, for parties not so much, 95 - 99% of the time the music didn't do anything with their capabilities, making them mostly wasted space. I would much rather use a design that stops at 30 Hz, in fact, stopping at 40 Hz has been common practice for decades.
Now that being said, I do think Conanski's view is a bit pessimistic, though going to a diy-setup would involve a steep learning curve compared to the PK's.
Johan
I've used some tapped horns in the past, that went down to 20 Hz for both parties and HT. For HT they were excellent, for parties not so much, 95 - 99% of the time the music didn't do anything with their capabilities, making them mostly wasted space. I would much rather use a design that stops at 30 Hz, in fact, stopping at 40 Hz has been common practice for decades.
Now that being said, I do think Conanski's view is a bit pessimistic, though going to a diy-setup would involve a steep learning curve compared to the PK's.
Johan
Well.. I was just reading over on another site where a provider lost several PK subs at an event, and I'm personally repairing one of my own powered subs at the moment... a box that has worked well for a few years but finally gave up the ghost. That just goes to show IMO that building durability is the harder part of any design.
Thanks for the input!.
I contacted 18sound and asked about 21" drivers they sent me plans for the exact same BP box PK uses for its CX800 dual 18's only scaled up for dual 21" drivers. The B&C 21" drivers move 40% more air then 18's and the amplifiers I am looking at are the Dayton SPA2400DSP which is 400w larger then the amplifiers used by PK Sound. This is the route I will more then likely go if I decide to build my own bins.
I contacted 18sound and asked about 21" drivers they sent me plans for the exact same BP box PK uses for its CX800 dual 18's only scaled up for dual 21" drivers. The B&C 21" drivers move 40% more air then 18's and the amplifiers I am looking at are the Dayton SPA2400DSP which is 400w larger then the amplifiers used by PK Sound. This is the route I will more then likely go if I decide to build my own bins.
Like Rademakers suggested, first MEASURE the frequency response of the PK's! We can't properly give an advise without measurements.
Marketing is a funny thing. If the PK's really go as low as advertised there, adding a different type subwoofer is weird. If they only go down to 50 or something, you could add something different. Do you usually center cluster the subs or split them?
So: if the PK's hit a solid 35Hz (MEASURE THIS), just add more boxes. Output below 35Hz is rarely found or missed. (this is whay I aim for!) I should also ask: what kind of music do you usually play with the rig?
TLDR;
- Measure frequency response
- Split subs or center cluster?
- What kind of music do you play?
Marketing is a funny thing. If the PK's really go as low as advertised there, adding a different type subwoofer is weird. If they only go down to 50 or something, you could add something different. Do you usually center cluster the subs or split them?
So: if the PK's hit a solid 35Hz (MEASURE THIS), just add more boxes. Output below 35Hz is rarely found or missed. (this is whay I aim for!) I should also ask: what kind of music do you usually play with the rig?
TLDR;
- Measure frequency response
- Split subs or center cluster?
- What kind of music do you play?
While measuring is a great idea, I recall seeing a number of posts to indicate the PK specs are legit. I would suggest to scan your tunes to see if you really have a need for <30hz. Then, model the plans you got and see for yourself if in fact the box will do what you want. It's one thing to diy a box that outperforms typical store bought boxes and quite another to outperform a pro touring box.
The CX800s are pretty well known in EDM. Excision's infamously loud tours use them.
There should be no lack sub-bass from those boxes. They are tuned very low and unless you heave REALLY unusual needs, they should be enough for even the bassiest of electronic music.
If you feel you're missing lf, check what DSP settings you're using.Consider adding processing to boost the LF content, and check if your music actually has that much sub-bass.
My advice for your particular situation is to add more CX800s. Keep it simple.
There should be no lack sub-bass from those boxes. They are tuned very low and unless you heave REALLY unusual needs, they should be enough for even the bassiest of electronic music.
If you feel you're missing lf, check what DSP settings you're using.Consider adding processing to boost the LF content, and check if your music actually has that much sub-bass.
My advice for your particular situation is to add more CX800s. Keep it simple.
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