Hi All -
I was just about to begin making sawdust on my first THAM 15 using the B&C TBX100 when a friend in the pro-audio biz connected me with the QSC rep. Bottom line, I can get one or two of these at a ridiculously great price (but certainly not as cheap as building a THAM).
GP212-sw 18? Subwoofer ? QSC
SPECIFICATIONS
GP212-SW
Configuration 2 x 12" - 4th order band-pass subwoofer
Transducers 2 x 550 W, 8 ohm 12" woofer with a 4" voice coil, ceramic magnet assembly
Frequency Response (±3 dB) 40 Hz - 100 Hz (without processing)
Frequency Range (-10 dB) 32 Hz - 107 Hz (without processing)
Nominal Impedance 4 ohms
Continuous Power Capacity 1100 W
Recommended Power 1650–2200 W
Sensitivity (1 W at 1 m) 99 dB
Maximum Output—Continuous / Peak (SPL at 1 m) 129.4 dB / 135.4 dB
Cabinet Type 4th-order bandpass
Enclosure Material 15mm Baltic birch plywood
I'm interested in pure performance and don't mind paying the difference in price to get more output if this guy will outperform a THAM 15 significantly.
Anyone ever heard one of these and / or have an opinion about their relative performance vs. the THAM?
I was just about to begin making sawdust on my first THAM 15 using the B&C TBX100 when a friend in the pro-audio biz connected me with the QSC rep. Bottom line, I can get one or two of these at a ridiculously great price (but certainly not as cheap as building a THAM).
GP212-sw 18? Subwoofer ? QSC
SPECIFICATIONS
GP212-SW
Configuration 2 x 12" - 4th order band-pass subwoofer
Transducers 2 x 550 W, 8 ohm 12" woofer with a 4" voice coil, ceramic magnet assembly
Frequency Response (±3 dB) 40 Hz - 100 Hz (without processing)
Frequency Range (-10 dB) 32 Hz - 107 Hz (without processing)
Nominal Impedance 4 ohms
Continuous Power Capacity 1100 W
Recommended Power 1650–2200 W
Sensitivity (1 W at 1 m) 99 dB
Maximum Output—Continuous / Peak (SPL at 1 m) 129.4 dB / 135.4 dB
Cabinet Type 4th-order bandpass
Enclosure Material 15mm Baltic birch plywood
I'm interested in pure performance and don't mind paying the difference in price to get more output if this guy will outperform a THAM 15 significantly.
Anyone ever heard one of these and / or have an opinion about their relative performance vs. the THAM?
Yes, I do. This is going on a boat (long story) so I need max efficiency and relatively small footprint. My most limiting dimension is a 20" width constraint. It can be up to ~30" tall and quite deep (~40").
Thanks for replying and look forward to any wisdom you / others can provide!
The specs for those QSC subs look pretty impressive, and they look like they're built to take a bit of weather too, which is always good when considering a build for a boat. How many of them can you fit in the space that you're considering?
Note - given your 20" limitation, there seems to be enough space available for a TH based around an 18" driver. You'll need to come up with a fold that fits it into that space though, and of course you'll also need to consider how you're actually going to get the box into that space as well.
Thanks Brian -
I could actually fit a couple of the QSC's but they retail for ~2500 each so, even at a deal, I don't want to shell out for 2 unless they're going to blow away something I can build.
I've thought about an 18" TH but, after spending some time with Hornresp, have figured out that I don't have the time to learn the topic well enough to DIY on the design. That's why I've been looking at existing designs like the THAM and SS.
Again, thanks to you and anyone else who can offer advice!
Jeff
I could actually fit a couple of the QSC's but they retail for ~2500 each so, even at a deal, I don't want to shell out for 2 unless they're going to blow away something I can build.
I've thought about an 18" TH but, after spending some time with Hornresp, have figured out that I don't have the time to learn the topic well enough to DIY on the design. That's why I've been looking at existing designs like the THAM and SS.
Again, thanks to you and anyone else who can offer advice!
Jeff
They won't. Without knowing exactly how cheaply you can get the QSC subs it's hard to say, but at a $2500 price point it certainly wouldn't have an advantage over the THAMs.
Building cabs to a high quality standard can be pretty time consuming, so it also matters if you consider that as a cost or just something to pass the time. You also have to consider that the QSC cabinets will probably hold value decently, while if you ever try to sell a DIY cab it can be a bit more difficult (but not impossible, I've sold several on Craigslist).
But coming back to the performance, the QSC cabinet has pretty impressive specs but won't blow away the THAM. The THAM is a pretty potent cabinet. Considering how expensive the QSC cabs are even at a steep discount, I'd still go with the THAM. Even with high quality materials and high quality cabinet hardware they shouldn't cost more than 400 each to make.
Put together a list of what you might need. Just add plywood and PL Premium glue.
Attachments
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I agree Patrick - only issue is that there's no cabin. This is a pontoon boat so it's going to behave more like an open air environment as there's nothing to load the sub off of. Here are some pics to make it more clear:
We're trying to get a sub to keep up with these (which have since turned into 4 Behringer B212XL's and 2 EV ZX1's):
Hey Patrick, thanks!
Can you elaborate a bit about what you've seen work well out there? I now have a generator and PA amps running the system that we put up when we want to go full tilt so I can scale it a bit if needed.
In particular, what are you seeing on the water in terms of bass that gets loud?
Ninety percent of the boat speakers I saw on Lake Havasu look like this. These speakers were all midrange, which was ironic because most of the boats were playing R&B. The reason these speakers was all midrange was twofold:
1) tweeters beam, so you'd have to be right in front of the speaker to hear the tweeter
2) Below 2000hz, the sound from the speakers is going to 'wrap around' the enclosure. Due to this, you need a LOT of displacement and power to play below 2000hz with these speakers.
Below 2000hz, the output was falling. So, again, it was all midrange, and pretty bright too.
I noticed one or two boats had something resembling midbass. I have no idea where their subs were, but I'm guessing they had some.
About ten percent of the boats were using horn loaded compression drivers; IIRC they were a coaxial model, from Kicker I think:
This isn't the same one, but you get the general idea. Out on the water, having a speaker that has directivity control and something resembling a wide beamwidth makes an immediately audible difference.
Thanks Patrick - I see your point. I think we've got the highs and midrange covered... Currently, I have the following on the boat (don't use all of it unless it's a big party):
- EV ELX112's x 2 Electro-Voice ELX112 12-inch two-way full-range
- EV ZX1 x 2 Electro-Voice ZX1 8-inch two-way full-range composite loudspeaker
- Behringer B212XL x 4 Behringer B212XL 12" 800W Passive Titanium PA Speaker | Musician's Friend
That's a total of 6 12" tops and 2 8" tops - all HLCD - powered by a Crown XLS 2000 (XLS 2000 | Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers)... Now need sub to keep up with them. Those girls in the pic you shared don't shake their booty unless there's bass!
- EV ELX112's x 2 Electro-Voice ELX112 12-inch two-way full-range
- EV ZX1 x 2 Electro-Voice ZX1 8-inch two-way full-range composite loudspeaker
- Behringer B212XL x 4 Behringer B212XL 12" 800W Passive Titanium PA Speaker | Musician's Friend
That's a total of 6 12" tops and 2 8" tops - all HLCD - powered by a Crown XLS 2000 (XLS 2000 | Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers)... Now need sub to keep up with them. Those girls in the pic you shared don't shake their booty unless there's bass!
Interesting that you're not using one of those "marine audio" amps for that purpose. How are you powering that amplifier?
As for subs, you'll definitely need a solution with a bit of oomph to keep up with those tops. Like two PPSLs using 4 15s in total, for example.
How are you planning to power the subs BTW?
Knowing more about the application now, I still think the THAM is a pretty good cabinet choice. Keeping up with all those tops at full blast requires a ton of sub in any case, but a pair of THAM15s is a pretty solid place to start. Definitely wouldn't bother with the QSC subs regardless.
The only thing that could potentially be a better choice is a 4015lf loaded SS15 cabinet. I think they're a good 2db more sensitive which is good if you really want to get pounding bass with a minimum of equipment. That comes at the price of losing a lot of the output in the 40-50hz range that the THAM can do but SS15 really can't. That would depend on the music you play. If it's EDM, rap, or hip-hop related genres it isn't the best choice, but for country or rock it might be good.
The only thing that could potentially be a better choice is a 4015lf loaded SS15 cabinet. I think they're a good 2db more sensitive which is good if you really want to get pounding bass with a minimum of equipment. That comes at the price of losing a lot of the output in the 40-50hz range that the THAM can do but SS15 really can't. That would depend on the music you play. If it's EDM, rap, or hip-hop related genres it isn't the best choice, but for country or rock it might be good.
I tried marine and 12v amps for the tops before and, while they do work, they don't work all day - they eventually overheat and have to cool before getting back into the game.
On powering the PA amp, I use a Champion 3.1K inverter / generator:
3100W Inverter Generator - Champion Power Equipment
It's whisper quiet though, with all of the sound going, it doesn't need to be
I have a reliable 12v amp on the boat already for sub duty that puts out 1200 watts rms and will run all day. If I go that route (which is preferred), I'm going to need to run some sort of DSP (mini DSP?).
If I need more power, I may go with a Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP. I have one of those lying around anyway and it has a built in limiter and crossover
I'm thinking the same - I'm going to build one of the THAM15's and borrow some queues from the "touring style" build. That way, I can keep one THAM on the boat permanently and have one on the dock (covered) that I can put on top of the permanent sub for days when I know extra sub will be required.
We also listen to a mix of music including some with 40 hz content so not willing to give up that extension for the extra sensitivity - especially given the SS15 is about 2 inches too wide for my application.
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The THAM series are all designed in the coastal town of Göteborg in Sweden, Sweden used to be a land of Vikings, hence Viking DNA is by logical extension built in to the design itself, and if you are going to put any design on a boat...
LOL Martinsson! Couldn't agree more! I will mount a set of horns on the cabinets so as to maintain their true Viking heritage.
Thanks for your great design - I had some challenging space requirements and needed a ton of output... your design seems to fit perfectly!
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