Now you got me thinking.
I'm planning to build two sealed subs with Dayton ultimax 15 drivers. They are not in stock yet on parts express and imported to Norway they will be almost twice the price of the Alpine drivers.
Have you tested both Ultimax and the SWS-15D2? Are there a big difference in performance?
The SWS-15D2 would visually go well together with my Klipsch main speakers, if it weren't for that ugly Alpine logo.
No, but here's some specs to consider:
Alpine SWS-15D2 vs Ultimax UM15-22
fs : 27hz vs 19.5hz
qes : 0.51 vs 0.59
qms : 2.4 vs 7.69
qts : 0.48 vs 0.47
vas : 107 vs 224.3
xmax : 15mm vs 19mm
shorting rings? no / yes
underhung? yes / no
inductance : 1.87mh vs 1.3mh
VC diameter : 65.5mm vs 63.5mm
price : $120 vs $200
Long story short, the shorting rings in the Ultimax gives it inductance that's a bit lower, and the Ultimax has 27% more displacement. But that comes at a cost that's 67% higher.
For me, the big difference is that I'm impatient, I hate waiting ten days to get my stuff from Parts Express. Plus, the Alpine still offers more bang for the buck. The Alpine is ubiquitous I can get it off Amazon, get it off the Internet, I could probably walk down the street and find it at Best Buy. (Need to confirm that one.)
If you really want those shorting rings, get the Type R, it has them.
I know you guys are probably sick of hearing about them, but I still really like my Beyma 15P1200Nd drivers. I've had them in a variety of cabinets, good and bad, and they've always delivered. They're good to around 14mm one-way travel, and can take a thermal hammering, too.
Value for money will always be the JBL GTO1214 for me, though. Those Alpine drivers look good, but are very expensive over here.
Chris
Value for money will always be the JBL GTO1214 for me, though. Those Alpine drivers look good, but are very expensive over here.
Chris
The alpine v ultimax- the alpine is vastly less efficient- actually, the rather cool thing is that because the thing is car-oriented, that enables them to use the magnet structure to make a long underhung gap- normally you have to balance underhang vs. excursion, to get the most out of the motor, but they can go long-gap and relatively short coil with higher gauge wire to get the Xmax/power needed since efficiency is actually a bad thing for a car sub (bigger boxes are not kosher). I'd take a pair of those over a single ultimax any day! Looks like a substantially lighter cone assembly with power handling enhanced by the underhang- overhung motors have less metal around the voicecoil (except in stuff like the Apollo versions of Lambdas) so the heatsinking of the motor structure is less effective. I've not seen it but my understanding is that when a JBL 2226h or other VGC drivers burn out, it's usually aligned to the vents in the VC. The vents keep the motor cooler overall but concentrate coil heat in those areas where there's less steel near the coil.
Shipping from parts express scared me from buying the ultimax ($600 for two drivers).
After some thinking I bought two LAB12 instead. Then I don't have to do any compromises in enclosure volume.
First I will build two small sealed enclosures, then I can play around with horns if I get bored.
After some thinking I bought two LAB12 instead. Then I don't have to do any compromises in enclosure volume.
First I will build two small sealed enclosures, then I can play around with horns if I get bored.
is anyone planning to try this new driver out?
Peerless STW Subwoofers – Big Bass for Small Enclosures | Tymphany
for a 15" the Vas is incredibly low, especially given the Fs,
it's designed for 91mm peak to peak, the long coil - long gap doesn't make for headline Xmax bragging rights, but actually give a much better BL curve, and better linearity,,
Peerless STW Subwoofers – Big Bass for Small Enclosures | Tymphany
for a 15" the Vas is incredibly low, especially given the Fs,
it's designed for 91mm peak to peak, the long coil - long gap doesn't make for headline Xmax bragging rights, but actually give a much better BL curve, and better linearity,,
I'd be curious if anyone has experience in comparing "regular" high quality subwoofer drivers to "servo" drivers from Rythmik or GR Research. Some claims are made for servo's having better recovery times and therefore less smearing or distortion but it's hard to know how to weigh the real difference. Would love to hear what others think.
Rythmik and GR users I've known have been thrilled with their drivers- though I'm not sure it's anything that can't be achieved with bigger boxes and more net displacement (with some other advantages inherent). I have been using inexpensive drivers in multiples to get very high displacement capability and get exceptional performance from my current 4x12 sub- cheap Zalytron drivers (1201PL, Zalytron is effectively no more as are the drivers). It uses 2 push pull manifolds to load them.
If I had to make a current gen supersub, I'd very likely use multiples of the Alpines Patrick references up to my max allowable enclosure size. Mo surface mo bedda fo yo chedda.
If I had to make a current gen supersub, I'd very likely use multiples of the Alpines Patrick references up to my max allowable enclosure size. Mo surface mo bedda fo yo chedda.
This is incorrect. Data-bass tests show that a single 24 is roughly equal to a pair of TC LMSR 18s or a pair of 18 inch HSTs WITH THE 18s MATCHING THE 24's OUTPUT IN A FRACTION OF THE BOX SIZE - as tested the single 24 had more than 2x more box volume than the dual 18's. This myth that the 24 is equal to 4 TC drivers has been around for years and it's wrong. It might be equal to 4 much cheaper 18s, but it's only equal to a pair of good 18s.
The 24 absolutely does not work great in an 8 cu ft box. 8 cu ft is the ABSOLUTE SMALLEST box you can cram this driver into and get it to come close to reaching it's excursion potential without melting the voice coil. 15 cu ft is recommended, and even that is way too small IMO. This driver was built for IB and that's the only alignment it will really shine in.
The amount of myth and urban legend surrounding this driver is staggering. I've been fighting it for years now. Two years before the data-bass measurements came out I was telling people this driver was not capable of output equaling 4 high excursion 18s and not capable of surviving 8000 watt amps for any length of time. It took years to get some hard data but of course I was right, this driver doesn't break any laws of physics.
Peerless STW-350F188PR01-04
Initially it appears very appealing. On closure inspection/sim it's not what it seems !
Simmed in a 150L box with fb @ 20Hz & a LR 15Hz 24db HPF
I'm not sure what "Rated Noise Power P 2200W" means ? Anyway, all that power isn't realistically available where it matters most !
Supposedly capable of 91mm Pk - Pk excursion ! Well, even if it is, which is doubtful, it can't make anywhere near full use of it.
Within it's resticted limits, it should be fine though. I expect it won't be cheap, so other options are likely to offer much better value "
Initially it appears very appealing. On closure inspection/sim it's not what it seems !
Simmed in a 150L box with fb @ 20Hz & a LR 15Hz 24db HPF
I'm not sure what "Rated Noise Power P 2200W" means ? Anyway, all that power isn't realistically available where it matters most !
Supposedly capable of 91mm Pk - Pk excursion ! Well, even if it is, which is doubtful, it can't make anywhere near full use of it.
Within it's resticted limits, it should be fine though. I expect it won't be cheap, so other options are likely to offer much better value "
Attachments
I do. Some work very well producing low tuneful bass and as long as one isnt expecting more low spl's than there 'mid-bass' driver can handle. not to say they cant add impact.
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i'm not sure why you are limiting the sims to ~10mm excursion,
it's capable of far more linear excursion,
the power rating is a preliminary one, Tymphany base their power ratings on real IEC268-5 100H continuous noise (6dB crest factor) carried out on multiple units from real production runs,
i know of other drivers from very well know manufacturers that self-destruct when tested at 1/2 the datasheet power spec...
i'm not sure why you are limiting the sims to ~10mm excursion,
it's capable of far more linear excursion,
the power rating is a preliminary one, Tymphany base their power ratings on real IEC268-5 100H continuous noise (6dB crest factor) carried out on multiple units from real production runs,
i know of other drivers from very well know manufacturers that self-destruct when tested at 1/2 the datasheet power spec...
Ditto. The HS-24 is my favorite sub driver by far. I've been using one since it first came out and it's the first conventional driver I've encountered that has that clean, tactile snap I loved (and miss) and the Magnepan Tympanis I used to use, but with far better control and extension. For a diehard large panel speaker lover, preferring the bass of this driver is really saying something. When you dig down low, the surface area component of displacement rules. I've gained an appreciation of ULF with this driver.
When there was a great deal of debate when this driver first came out, the TC Sounds LMS-Ultra 5800 was touted as the given superior. Curiosity as to whether that was the case and not wanting to lose sight of the good parts of the hobby and become one of those audio philosophasters who only models and never makes sawdust, I picked one up and spent a good year and a half comparing the two side-by-side. The LMS-U is good (not perfect), but the 24" gave nothing up to it until it reached excursions that produced levels the LMS-U had no chance to catch up to. Something that actually surprised me given how lauded that driver is. Not wanting to waste a superdriver, I've tried since to integrate it with the big woof to enjoy some multiple sub room smoothing, just a little bit to fill in, but whatever I've tried, even giving it twice the power on an amp with a 10Hz filter, the "little" 18" bottoms out before it becomes useful. Honestly, if it weren't handy to have a well-known and measured touchstone to compare against when playing with subs, I'd give it up for another 24" without a second thought.
On that box size, are you thinking of the MkII? When I modeled up those T/S parameters, I was surprised at how well it modeled in a smaller box. A MkII in a 10ft^3 box was modeling better than my MkI in a box half again as large and mine in actual real life measurements was already netting me up to 2-3dB more output between 16-32Hz than WinISD predicted (4-5dB more than Unibox, but that disparity I'd attribute to my less than perfect familiarity with the program). (I'd like to revisit these measurements some day with equipment that isn't borrowed to get a better feel for what's going on. Any excuse to run bass sweeps and see that big cone moving.)
I'd also like to throw some love out there for the old XBL^2 drivers from Adire like the Brahma and Tumult (MkIIs with the much improved inductance) and the Exodus offerings (Shiva and Maelstrom and the Sicko-X that could've been, but never was) that improved upon them. They may not have been the flashiest to look at, but those were some excellent sounding drivers with excursion to spare. Years later and few can touch them still for digging so deeply and cleanly.
While I've no experience with those brands, I have spent a great deal of time listening to an Infinity Modulus servo subwoofer (the original Modulus series that were favorably compared as a budget option against the IRS Betas) that used the same driver and electronics configuration as found in the their IRS series. That's an accelerometer based servo rather than a sensing coil like Rythmik uses, so there may be differences, but, yes, my experience agrees with those claims. Very clean bass with great extension within the bandwidth limits (the Infinity servos cut off below 16Hz to protect the drivers from overexcursion) that rivals that of the best subs out there if not outright betters many. The Modulus is, unfortunately, power limited to 250 watts on a 12" driver, so above low to moderate listening levels its transient response did suffer, but within its limits, very good.
The spec sheet lists the Xmax at 10.5mm. Perhaps the other figure is Xmech.
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