12'' TH w/ Pioneer Car sub. Go for it? - diyAudio
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Old 15th June 2015, 02:41 PM   #1
moldo2 is offline moldo2  Denmark
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Question 12'' TH w/ Pioneer Car sub. Go for it?

I'm building a 12'' TH for outdoor use, and planning to use the Pioneer TS-W311D4 car sub,(TS-W311D4 Pioneer - Speakers, Subwoofers - Car*Entertainment) I got to thinking: Seeing as the driver with all the "fancy" plastic and stuff on the back of it is pretty big(16 cm deep), do I need to consider this in folding the horn? I mean how much will it impede airflow through the horn, and will I have to compensate for this?

Also on a sidenote, how does this sim look to you guys? I'm still pretty new with this horn stuff, but the design seems to give me the response I'm after(40-100ish hz). And do you trust the specs from Pioneer on this somewhat cheap driver?

Any comments on sim, design, choice of driver and favorite snack are very welcome!
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Old 16th June 2015, 01:22 PM   #2
Zwiller is offline Zwiller  United States
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I am contemplating a SS15 with Infinity 1260w for a mini PA rig. Can't speak for the Pioneer but I've seen many success stories with the 1260w. That said, I share a similar concern with using a car sub. I cannot imagine the extra plastic will be a problem. Sim looks pretty good to me. I tried your sim with 1260w and was not an improvement. From what I've picked up, only the pro gear data can be trusted, even then, there are still variances. They way I see it, if we build these and fry the driver we're only out $60... It's all about intended use. My sub will be used along side of a 40w Behringer top so I really doubt I will push it. IOW I think the power ratings on car subs are highly suspect and would not push them beyond RMS.
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Old 17th June 2015, 08:06 AM   #3
GM is offline GM  United States
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With a 1.05 Qts, this driver isn't a viable TH option unless it's extremely large and then only if all that plastic cladding is removed.

Infinity, JBL, Alpine, MTX or similar mobile audio subs with a < 40 Hz Fs, 0.4 Qts is what you want.

GM
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Old 17th June 2015, 10:20 AM   #4
moldo2 is offline moldo2  Denmark
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Quote:
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With a 1.05 Qts, this driver isn't a viable TH option
GM
Out of curiosity, why is that so? The sim looks good, so why not use the driver? Not disregarding your comment, just trying to further my understanding. I'm pretty new to this horn thing ;-)
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Old 17th June 2015, 11:53 AM   #5
moldo2 is offline moldo2  Denmark
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Is this a better choice then?

http://www.ground-zero-audio.com/com.../GZTW_30TX.pdf

It has Qts 0.53 instead of the 1.05 of the Pioneer. 30 sec in HR got me pretty much the same response as the Pioneer.
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Old 18th June 2015, 01:11 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by moldo2 View Post
Is this a better choice then?

http://www.ground-zero-audio.com/com.../GZTW_30TX.pdf

It has Qts 0.53 instead of the 1.05 of the Pioneer. 30 sec in HR got me pretty much the same response as the Pioneer.
That's a pretty deep null above 100 Hz. I probably wouldn't opt to build this.
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Old 18th June 2015, 04:30 PM   #7
GM is offline GM  United States
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Originally Posted by moldo2 View Post
Out of curiosity, why is that so? The sim looks good, so why not use the driver? Not disregarding your comment, just trying to further my understanding. I'm pretty new to this horn thing ;-)
Well, unless you already have a good understanding of basic band-pass speaker design, then short of a lengthy tutorial I don't have time for, about the best I can think of is that one normally only design cabs to amplify a point source [cone/dome] driver's rising response portion of its BW = 2*Fs/Qts or ~81.9 Hz, i.e. not even one octave, so this Ďone noteí high Q alignment is theoretically only suited for peak SPL competitions and even then would be larger than typical since Qts dominates speaker cab design.

That said, one can obviously make grossly misaligned speakers and now with the advent of relatively inexpensive digital EQ one can [re]shape its response and some folks have done so with mixed results, so yours may/maynít perform as predicted and/or cause premature driver failure due to non-linear loading, especially when itís a TH, and worse, when the driver is compression loaded like yours is [S2 is smaller than driver Sd].

As I noted though, one can properly horn load high Qt drivers if made large enough to offset its very weak motor, but why not spend all that extra $$$ in materials and maybe electronics towards a driver much more/best suited to the needs of the app? The only reason I can think of is if you live somewhere that has a very limited driver choice once shipping, etc., is factored in.

GM
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Old 18th June 2015, 04:43 PM   #8
GM is offline GM  United States
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Is this a better choice then?
It's a lot better, though still pretty far off the ideal, though of more importance is that any of these inexpensive driver's actual specs tend to be somewhat worse in reality, with Qts normally being somewhat, to grossly, higher since most of its manufacturing cost is in its motor assembly.

Best then to buy one of the drivers or at least brands such as the JBL GTO series or similar with proven results if it's an option.

GM
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Old 18th June 2015, 04:45 PM   #9
GM is offline GM  United States
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That's a pretty deep null above 100 Hz. I probably wouldn't opt to build this.
Seems like it would be an advantage to getting a super steep acoustic XO since he's only interested in a ~100 Hz top end.

GM
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Old 18th June 2015, 04:55 PM   #10
moldo2 is offline moldo2  Denmark
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I'm looking at maybe getting the JBL GT4-12 instead then, since I can get two of them pretty cheaply(meaning two horns instead of one).

Specs are here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach..._f1_page_1.jpg

They sim pretty nicely although I would the high corner higher, maybe 150 hz- this was a 30 sec sim though, I'll try to optimize it, if you guys agree with this choice of driver?
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