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Old 3rd April 2015, 11:43 PM   #1
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Default Another one of those design request threads...

Hey guys I was hoping someone could help me end my search for a PC subwoofer. Ive been looking for the right design/ driver for weeks and nothing really seems to fit the bill.
I'm looking for something lees than 1.5 cu ft with an f3 of 35 or less. One driver, less than $100. I have looked at the common designs like triska/ Cerberus and I just don't think they will go low enough even for just music.
I would favor a sealed enclosure because I've never owned one, everything I've had is cheap, ported and boomy and I want it to be as snappy and articulate as possible (good transient response, I guess..?)
I'll most likely pick up one of the Dayton 70w plate amp but with a less expensive driver maybe I could upgrade from there.

This will be paired with a pair of stock minimus 7's at the moment and either overnight sensations or ufonkens in the future.
Thanks guys
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Old 4th April 2015, 12:17 AM   #2
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Sounds like you want near field 30Hz, snappy transient response, under 1.5 cu ft. Try the KaZba - a Z baffle dipole with dual 8in drivers.

Rockin' the KaZba Dipole (K aperture Z-baffle Dipole)

Click the image to open in full size.

It will go 30Hz to 200Hz and had pretty clean inpulse since it is a aperture loaded dipole.

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My prototype is in foam core and cardboard. The principle had been proven and I would build in wood to resist the high pressures.
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Old 4th April 2015, 01:55 AM   #3
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Thanks, xrk! You come up with some really cool ideas, man! I wish those $10 drivers were still up for sale on PE, I'd jump right in if they were.
Would this work with the ~$25 Dayton SDA-88 with some modifications?
I'm assuming I would just cross this at around 100hz to blend correctly with my minimus'

Does anyone else know any good designs to throw into the mix?
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Old 4th April 2015, 04:23 AM   #4
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Kazba is interesting; I love dipole bass. I'll have to dig in and read to understand the technical aspects of Kazba...

For traditional subwoofer, I'd use the parts-express woofer selection guide to get an idea (sort by f3):
Resources - Woofer Selection Guide

So without equalization, you are probably not going to find a good sub < 1.5 cubic feet sealed with an F3 < 35Hz for < $100. You can get a plate amp and bump the bottom of a sealed sub with good excursion or go ported. If you want SPL > 100dB for your price range, you better just go ported and find the right sub. I had pretty good luck with TC epic 10" sealed with a bump on the bottom. It's a bit more expensive but has the excursion limits necessary to get decently loud. The Dayton HO drivers seem pretty good in smaller enclosures but I haven't used one yet.

So I've been building speakers for around 10 years. I started off wanting all of my designs to go to 30Hz flat. Experience taught me that this is not what you really want for music listening anyways. Very little music has much content < 40Hz. A sealed speaker with an F3 of 50 Hz with room gain sounds about right for the majority of recordings. Room gain is real and with a sealed subwoofer, the rolloff of the sub under 45Hz + room gain is pretty close to flat into the low 30s. With a ported sub, the rolloff is faster so you want a ported sub to go a little deeper. Hope this helps
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Old 4th April 2015, 05:32 AM   #5
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I ran the numbers for the Dayton RSS210HO-8 sub ( Eight inch) thru the simulator & got some very good numbers for 1.23 cubic feet worth of a ported enclosure...how about an F3 (-3.11 Db @ 26.34 Htz.) The tricky thing for this one is the very long port required to get it down this low.
I always thought someone should build such a sub with a single port-tube (Or dual port-tubes) & have them function as a "stand" All we would see is what looks like a larger plain-jane speaker up on a set of stands, when those stands are actually port-tubes. One could even match heights of the outboard smaller satellites, as in your Minimus Sevens. We would then observe three "modules", the center one a tad over a cubic foot in volume.


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Old 4th April 2015, 05:50 AM   #6
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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An XKi alignment might work well if you don't mind a ported box with long vents.

XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass

Here, I am using Tang Band W5-876SE (16ohms) run in parallel for 8ohms impedance.

Click the image to open in full size.

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The Dayton RS225-8 is also very useful as a sub driver. Qts of 0.38, Vas of 2 cu ft.,7mm xmax and has a very linear motor.
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Old 4th April 2015, 05:11 PM   #7
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Honestly that just looks beyond my capabilities as a woodworker! Is the Dayton RS225-8 the driver that you would suggest for the kazba?
Also, I'm aware that ~40hz is where a lot of music ends, buy I haven't ever owned anything that plays lower than that. I want yo experience some of what the lower octaves can give me.

And I have seen the Dayton HO reference series and how well they can do, I honestly just don't want to deal with the ridiculous port lengths. I appreciate modeling it out for me though!
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Old 4th April 2015, 05:18 PM   #8
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25-40Hz gives you some fundamentals you've been missing, but there aren't many instruments that dig that low. Double bass, 5-string bass, piano, and some drums.
A lot of electronic music reaches that low easily.
Worth having if possible, IMO.

10-25Hz is more felt than heard. Great for movies and the like, but you're missing very little in music. Great for rattling cupboards and impressing people.
Fun for movies, but not too easy to do.

0-10Hz is where the maniacs start playing. This is where 4x 18"s a side is the norm, and people talk about their volume displacement in litres. That sort of thing will suck the air out of your lungs, and test the structural integrity of your house.
Presumably fun for movies (never tried it), but the sheer size/cost of such a thing means I'll probably never try.

Chris
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Old 4th April 2015, 08:19 PM   #9
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A lot of music has these lower registers which are not-so mysteriously gone in some systems...as they can't cover the very bottom. U2, rather less so, "Beautiful Day", or the obvious "sub-harmonic synthesizer" used in Madonnas "Get into the groove".
How about the lowest register of the Pipe Organ, at 16 hz? Where is your F3?

I prefer to cover all my bases.




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Old 4th April 2015, 09:28 PM   #10
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbriles2000 View Post
Honestly that just looks beyond my capabilities as a woodworker! Is the Dayton RS225-8 the driver that you would suggest for the kazba?
Also, I'm aware that ~40hz is where a lot of music ends, buy I haven't ever owned anything that plays lower than that. I want yo experience some of what the lower octaves can give me.

And I have seen the Dayton HO reference series and how well they can do, I honestly just don't want to deal with the ridiculous port lengths. I appreciate modeling it out for me though!
It looks complicated but it is not. There is a lot of bracing shown which makes it look complicated. The RS225-8 is probably an excellent driver for a dipole woofer. You could use it in slot loaded OB or a Linkwitz W frame, or a KaZba. Look for long travel linear motor and a stiff cone with fairly strong motor. This driver models well in a sealed enclosure as well as vented. Quite a versatile driver.
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