Sub for Party Boat - Suggestions Please

[nunyagd]

Hi All -

First post after reading a lot of different threads on this forum!

I have a pontoon boat that we use for lake parties and we're very happy with everything except the bass. I have a PA amp and speakers which do a great job (Crown XLS 1500 and 4 Electro-Voice ZX-1's). We've tried several car audio subs and spent thousands but in open air they are useless.

After some testing, I've found that the best location, at least for a bass reflex cabinet is here (see red square):

In that location, I can place an enclosure that is 22" (north to south) x 32" (east to west) and up to about 35" tall.

I've been considering a tapped horn and have looked at designs like the THAM15 and even the TH18 though a bit taller than I'd hoped. That said I'm not married to any specific design and could just as easily put a bass reflex cab there (even considered buying an 18" pro audio sub as there are several that would fit. However, something tells me I can get more performance for less if I DIY. I can provide serious power if needed and don't mind spending a few hundred on a good driver (though cheaper is fine with me!). I've also probably built over 100 sub enclosures over the years (worked my way through college doing custom car audio) and have the tools needed to build just about anything made from plywood.

What say you experts? If you were trying to get the girls booty's shakin' on the lake, what would you put in this location?

Thanks for your advice!

 

[zettairyouiki]

SS15 loaded with 4015lf is my suggestion. That'll fit in your dimensions easily. You can feed it safely 700w AES and get a hell of a noise. All for less than 300 in parts. Won't hit those subbass frequencies but its SPL above 50hz is top notch.

Depending on your budget and how much you really think you need deep bass extension below 50hz, there are other options as well. The more information the better. If you can afford it, have the space, and have the power to feed it, the TH18 is a monster.

 

[totalcomfort]

Take a look at House Wrecker by Decware, a couple of 15's in that box will move something!! Could build it and use it as a another bench seat.
I am using it with a single 15 in my HT room and it will put out insane bass

 

[erickalan77]

For an open air venue a folded horn loaded sub is fairly standard here in California. There is a site that seems to cater to the "party" crowd DIY and DJs. speakerplans.com ? Horn designs and forums. Or buy some Cerwin Vega , B52, EAW etc. folded horns. hollywooddj.com and PSSL.com are good sources. Cerwin Vega and EAW are very popular here. . . . . Car audio and home audio gear be it raw drivers, finished product or DIY designs are not suitable. You want high efficiency that you will only find in pro audio gear. RCF makes some wicked 15s and 18s for example the RCF L18P400 $330 @ amazon

 

[lutkeveld]

Outdoors and lots of background noise. Two big efficient 15's to ~50hz with one or two thousand watts is the way to go.

 

[erickalan77]

Something small and a bit popular at speakerplans.com DaveyT's Booty Bass Build - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1

 

[sine143]

Get something with weather proofed cone. Bc or 18 sound is my suggestion.

 

[PB2]

How about 4 Infinity 1260Ws in about 10 cu ft tuned to 28 Hz would probably do it, unless you need more extension. Here are a pair in about 7 cu ft tuned to 22 at 1000W:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/271139-what-do-big-finished-boxes.html#post4253179

Use EQ for extension down to the tuning frequency.

Dividing the power across 4 woofers helps.

 

[chris661]

I'd forget trying to go so low. IIRC, you're working in pretty much a free-field environment, so you want to sim in 4pi space. Efficiency is key, here.

THs have been shown to be at least a little bit directional, so I'd start there.

Chris

 

[PB2]

I think going low is what is going to make it sound good, depends on his source but a lot of new
material has deeper extension. He should go for at least 32 Hz.

4 Infinity 1260Ws in about 10 cu ft tuned to 28 Hz, tune lower if your program material has lower content:

 

[Brian Steele]

I think going low is what is going to make it sound good, depends on his source but a lot of new
material has deeper extension. He should go for at least 32 Hz.

4 Infinity 1260Ws in about 10 cu ft tuned to 28 Hz, tune lower if your program material has lower content:

Remember this is going on a BOAT. I wonder how much that is going to weigh? There's also the question of how much power would be required to run those 4 12's at a sufficient SPL level.

Given the design parameters, I'd probably consider something like a pair of the Eminence Kappalite 15s in 35 Hz vented boxes and use DSP to flatten their response down to Fb. Power requirements for most music should be lower, and the boxes will be quite light.

 

[PB2]

Remember this is going on a BOAT. I wonder how much that is going to weigh? There's also the question of how much power would be required to run those 4 12's at a sufficient SPL level.

Given the design parameters, I'd probably consider something like a pair of the Eminence Kappalite 15s in 35 Hz vented boxes and use DSP to flatten their response down to Fb. Power requirements for most music should be lower, and the boxes will be quite light.

Good points, but he gave dimensions that I think were greater than 10 cu ft. I simmed those at 2000W but I don't think he'll need the SPL and the average power will be much lower, it is nice to have the headroom. He could take this down to say 6-8 cu ft and EQ it back to flat or some desired curve.
He should build them out of marine plywood since it is much lighter than MDF.

 

[zettairyouiki]

I'd forget trying to go so low. IIRC, you're working in pretty much a free-field environment, so you want to sim in 4pi space. Efficiency is key, here.

This is the logic behind my recommending SS15 with 4015lf. Huge efficiency, good power handling, and is very strong to at least 50. It comes down to personal preference, but I think in an outdoor environment you're going to want just very loud and SS15 will pound. It's no dancefloor and I don't think you're going to be really missing sub 40hz content out on a lake.

 

[Brian Steele]

I'd forget trying to go so low. IIRC, you're working in pretty much a free-field environment, so you want to sim in 4pi space.

2PI space is more applicable, unless the poster is planning to mount those subs up in the air somewhere .

I agree on output level considerations. However, it should be possible to come up with a good compromise that achieves better LF capability at lower output levels, e.g. a vented box (Fb~30~35Hz) with dynamic EQ to extend the response down to Fb at lower levels and cut it back as the SPL level is increased to avoid over-excursion of the subwoofer drivers.

For example, a Kappalite LF 15" in a 6 cu.ft. vented box vented @ 35 Hz should be flat down to Fb with a 3dB boost @ 35 Hz, Q=0.7. Efficiency will be around 96.4dB/1W/1M. Dynamic EQ can be used to perform the LF boost. The same can be done with a 5 cu.ft. box tuned to the same Fb, but this time the boost will need to be 4dB with a Q of 1.

 

[PB2]

This is the logic behind my recommending SS15 with 4015lf. Huge efficiency, good power handling, and is very strong to at least 50. It comes down to personal preference, but I think in an outdoor environment you're going to want just very loud and SS15 will pound. It's no dancefloor and I don't think you're going to be really missing sub 40hz content out on a lake.

I wouldn't call it a subwoofer if it is going to miss 40 Hz, 40 Hz is big bookshelf land a sub should reach to at least 28 if not low 20's or lower. The bass that you feel is 40 Hz and below. The more you guys talk about this the more I think that mine is an excellent solution. It will do peaks to 126 dB!!!! in the passband and still do 120 dB at 20 Hz. I don't think he'll need 126 dB but even with just 500W it will do 120 dB in the passband.
He could cut the volume in half and give it 6 dB of boost at 28 Hz for nearly the same response. Or if he has room at the other end of the boat put 5 cu ft boxes at each end with 2 drivers in each to even out the SPL across the boat.
He says that he's tried many car subs that did not work, this will work.

 

[bitSmasher]

Ah the old debate of what is/isn't sub. More importantly look at what is/isn't practical, and IMO emphasis should be on 40hz and up
The chest rattling bass you want is around 50-60hz, aiming for <30hz outdoors is futile

 

[chris661]

Brian, I seem to remember water doesn't provide a particularly solid boundry at LF, which is why I'd sim for 4pi and be very pleased if there are any gains above what the sim would suggest.

PB2, the bass you feel in your chest is 60-120Hz, which is why many larger systems (eg, Nexo Alpha, which I'm very familiar with) use kick-bin cabinets specifically for that frequency range. A solid 40Hz output will give a punch in the gut, and below that just shakes everything.
128dB continuous output is possible with a single 15" down to 40Hz (modified THAM15 with longer L23 for 40Hz tuning). If you want to push towards Xlim (Beyma 15P1200Nd), 133dB peaks are possible, though you need serious power (140v rms) for that.
Note that I'm sim'ing in 2pi space to match yours. I suspect there'll be some SPL loss over water.
Last thing: have you included ports in your cabinet volume?
I struggle to get good ported boxes for long-throw 12"s, as you need really big ports that don't fit in the cabinets.

Chris

 

[PB2]

Yes Chris 40 Hz might be good enough but others said 50 was good enough and I disagree. 40 Hz might be good enough but I'd go for low 30s or even 28 as I've already stated several times.
Tuning will be difficult, high output passive radiators would probably be best.

The OP seems to have posted in the wrong thread here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/271139-what-do-big-finished-boxes-2.html#post4255295

 

[bjorno]

Hi All,

FYI: I've bought 2 1260W Drivers a few Months ago and have built a T-TQWT (totally 'Omni' unlike a TH) so far by using one of them in a ~248 liter single folded Box. that is very similar to the one provided in the submitted picture:

b

 

[Etocynned]

cool school Bjorno