No exp with that software. I'm still using the old jblpro with all the t/s parameter database for those "old" drivers.
As for the 400w speaker vs. a 450w amp. Dont be too concerned by the "mismatch". Manufacturer specs on wattages are notoriously wrong. Frankly you can "blow" just about any speaker with any amp(just run the amp past clipping enough to run enough DC to the VC on the speaker, and viola!...burnt VC.
Build your box, install, set the gain(s) *correctly*, and know precisely where the signal from your amp starts to clip, and stay a notch below that...I always erred on the side of caution, and only released the magic smoke from a few speakers, out of...hell I lost count...lol.
Besides, "short bursts", one song kinda thing, at "full non clipping volume" is better for your ears, and your equipment. I used to run an old Autotek 7300BTS full tilt for my hour long commute(each way) daily, and the gear and my ears suffered, and continue to suffer...so use some common sense, if your ears hurt...turn it down some....Actually that 7300 is still alive and well but it got so hot you could cook eggs on it, even with a fan. Pushing two old 10" Kicker Comp(white/red) in individual sealed boxes in a s10 blazer. I won more than a few bets from people that couldnt believe I *only* had two tens....but that was a long, long time ago... my thoughts and experiences could be completely irrelevant nowadays.....
Best advice....buy a few extra sheets of 3/4 and start building. Hell they probably have rta apps for phones now...I still have the old handheld with a separate pink noise gen. Damn Im old....lol.
i have not purchased the sub yet..but the retailer is saying he will sell both the jbl Gto1202d (300Watt) and Pioneer ts w309s4 (400 watt) at same price to me. which one should i buy ?
I cannot give a good assessment of either speaker, havent used either. Again, dont get too hung up on what the speakers wattage is rated at, their measurement methods usually leave some room to "up the wattage" to make the product seem more impressive. Likewise for the amps, the wattage ratings are somewhat misleading, unless the finally standardized the testing, but I would be surprised if they actually put out what they advertise in real world usage...ie, more than a 4 second burst that blows the amp, but hey it did put out 400watts for that four seconds. Famous old joke about the "Lightning" brand amps...the only way they would put out their rated wattage, is if they were struck by lightning.... .
If the maths and curves arent making alot of sense to you yet, you might want to consider sealed just for the ease of build, or at least build a ported box that can be converted to sealed(remove port and cover hole).
Not trying to talk you off the ledge or anything, but understanding those curves are critical to get a good baseline for the performance of the driver in the enclosure. Read the printout again, it shows what the FR would be for a sealed box and also a tapped horn and transmission line. Ignore the last two, the maths are crazy for those and usually wrong to some degree(sorry hornresp). There is more trial and error with horn loaded type enclosures than I care to think about. Unless you can find someone who has already done one, and copy them...EXACTLY.
To further confuse,the T/S parameters that are used to get all those calculations are also somewhat "under-standardized". In fact, each individual speaker(even the exact same model/brand), can have small differences in the T/S measurements provided by the manufacturer. When I was building speakers, I would(if properly compensated) test each speaker to see how they compare, and match as close as I could...sometimes going through several speakers to get two to match perfectly. Testing for T/S...well that is a whole 'nother ball of wax(and test gear) you might want to stay out of until you get the basics down. Certainly dont fret, we all started somewhere.
Back to your speaker choice....only a guess, but I have always liked JBL, but they have been "downgraded" quite a bit since I used to buy them(1990's). Best bet is to just do some searches here with those model numbers and see what the forum has to say..might take some research, but it could make all the math and curves make more sense.
Careful with those "retailers", some are great, some, well...I left the industry for a reason(well a few), but one major one is the sales techniques used by some shops. Dare I ask, what is your budget/location?
. If the maths and curves arent making alot of sense to you yet, you might want to consider sealed just for the ease of build, or at least build a ported box that can be converted to sealed(remove port and cover hole).
Not trying to talk you off the ledge or anything, but understanding those curves are critical to get a good baseline for the performance of the driver in the enclosure. Read the printout again, it shows what the FR would be for a sealed box and also a tapped horn and transmission line. Ignore the last two, the maths are crazy for those and usually wrong to some degree(sorry hornresp). There is more trial and error with horn loaded type enclosures than I care to think about. Unless you can find someone who has already done one, and copy them...EXACTLY.
To further confuse,the T/S parameters that are used to get all those calculations are also somewhat "under-standardized". In fact, each individual speaker(even the exact same model/brand), can have small differences in the T/S measurements provided by the manufacturer. When I was building speakers, I would(if properly compensated) test each speaker to see how they compare, and match as close as I could...sometimes going through several speakers to get two to match perfectly. Testing for T/S...well that is a whole 'nother ball of wax(and test gear) you might want to stay out of until you get the basics down. Certainly dont fret, we all started somewhere.
Back to your speaker choice....only a guess, but I have always liked JBL, but they have been "downgraded" quite a bit since I used to buy them(1990's). Best bet is to just do some searches here with those model numbers and see what the forum has to say..might take some research, but it could make all the math and curves make more sense.
Careful with those "retailers", some are great, some, well...I left the industry for a reason(well a few), but one major one is the sales techniques used by some shops. Dare I ask, what is your budget/location?
Why do you think that the maths used in the Hornresp offset driver and tapped horn models are crazy and wrong?
Not if you actually build what you simulate, and operate the loudspeaker under the same conditions as assumed in the simulation.
So you would suggest that someone that doesnt understand FR curves, attempt to build a tapped or transmission line enclosure for their car audio setup? "Crazy or wrong"...you are taking my comment out of context, "they" are "crazy or wrong" for someone with limited experience.
Does your simulation take in to effect the dynamics of the car interior? Not just "cabin gain", but all the other effects that can only be measured on a case by case basis? Do you have a database of every car/truck, with every option interior?
LAST time I give advice to someone...you can go ahead and walk him through building a transmission line for his car with your infinite knowledge and design magic.....
Does your simulation take in to effect the dynamics of the car interior? Not just "cabin gain", but all the other effects that can only be measured on a case by case basis? Do you have a database of every car/truck, with every option interior?
LAST time I give advice to someone...you can go ahead and walk him through building a transmission line for his car with your infinite knowledge and design magic.....
Thanks for the clarification - I thought that you might have identified a systemic problem with the offset driver and tapped horn results produced by Hornresp, but apparently not.
While the algorithms used in the Hornresp simulation models are reasonably complex (and perhaps difficult for some people without an engineering background to fully understand) I can assure you that both the underlying theory and the mathematics employed in the algorithms are very soundly based, and neither "crazy" nor "wrong".
My apologies to the original poster, I was only trying to help you sort all the info.
Well then Mr. McBean, you should have no problem whatsoever helping the original poster in this thread design a *perfect* box for his application.
Although you claim I clarified my statements about Hornresp, you are still in fact misinterpreting and using my words out of context. Have you actually read the whole thread? Your thinly veiled passive aggressive insults have not gone unnoticed.
One thing "I can assure you"; I wont dare mention Hornresp *ever* again, to anyone, for any reason. Perhaps that might be "difficult" for *you* to "fully understand"... especially since you missed, and continue to miss, my original points: therefore, I digress....and unsubscribe...its all yours boss...
Well then Mr. McBean, you should have no problem whatsoever helping the original poster in this thread design a *perfect* box for his application.
Although you claim I clarified my statements about Hornresp, you are still in fact misinterpreting and using my words out of context. Have you actually read the whole thread? Your thinly veiled passive aggressive insults have not gone unnoticed.
One thing "I can assure you"; I wont dare mention Hornresp *ever* again, to anyone, for any reason. Perhaps that might be "difficult" for *you* to "fully understand"... especially since you missed, and continue to miss, my original points: therefore, I digress....and unsubscribe...its all yours boss...
Hornresp and Akabak predict tapped horns and vented subs almost perfectly if you build what you simulate. There is very little trial and error. Sorry Camusmuse, I don't think David McBean was passive aggressive at all in his posts - you seem to be the one acting aggressive and defensive. Do you even know who David McBean is? Without his software, many here in the subwoofer forum would not have all the cool tapped horns and band pass subs that we have and enjoy.
If you feel personally insulted by the directness of my original question, then I unreservedly apologise for that. All I was really seeking was feedback from someone I thought had concerns about the accuracy of the Hornresp offset driver and tapped horn results, to try to understand the problems being encountered, and to help resolve them if at all possible.
I greatly value all user feedback - both positive and negative. Over the years it has helped to make Hornresp a better product.
The JBL GTO subs are well respected in the car community, better than the Pioneers in most users minds. Well known for taking more power than rated and being very good "budget" subs. The GTO-1214D is the budget driver of choice: JBL GTO-1214D Subwoofer | UK Car Audio & In-Car Entertainment Prices Smashed!
I sold car audio for 14years and found near all manufacturer's spec enclosures were a compromise for the "average" user, made too small, tuned too high.
What music do you listen to? Do you want a "street bass" car or SPL car. What car is it? How much space can you give to the enclosure?
I sold car audio for 14years and found near all manufacturer's spec enclosures were a compromise for the "average" user, made too small, tuned too high.
What music do you listen to? Do you want a "street bass" car or SPL car. What car is it? How much space can you give to the enclosure?
Yeah, in retrospect I should have qualified my agreement WRT using the Pioneer design that some fine tuning of the cab, vent is pretty much always required to get the best performance out of it in his vehicle.
GM
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