FaitalPRO 15HP1060 vs 3015LF for tapped horn? - diyAudio
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Old 21st September 2014, 07:20 PM   #1
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Default FaitalPRO 15HP1060 vs 3015LF for tapped horn?

Hi fellow DIYers. I just got two FaitalPRO 15HP1060's for a mobile PA system

While I am happy with the sound reproduction with F3 of 38hz, the vented enclosure pushing 49V @ 4ohm doesn't even come close to my stadiumhorns loaded with 3015LFs running 23V @ 8ohm. Nearly quadruple the power requirement, and it pales in comparison. I mean I guess no HUGE surprise there for outdoor bass reproduction :P

Anyway, I was wondering how you think the 15HP1060 would fair in a tapped horn enclosure.

I seem to remember that a high BL was good for TH, and obviously high xmax is necessary as well. How do you think think the 15HP stacks up?

3015LF RATED TS
(Fs) 42 Hz
(Re) 5.31 ohms
(Le) 0.92
(Qms) 6.82
(Qes) 0.41Total Q
(Qts) 0.39
(Vas) 5.6 ft.³
(Cms) 0.14 mm/N
(BL) 18.6
(Mms) 101g
(Xmax) 9.6
(Sd) 881.1 cm²

15HP1060 RATED TS
(Fs) 40 Hz
(Re) 2.9 ohms
(Le) 1.25
(Qms) 10.3
(Qes) 0.35
(Qts) 0.34
(Vas) 2.35 ft.³
(Cms) 0.08 mm/N
(BL) 20.7
(Mms) 205.4g
(Mmd) 193
(Xmax)12.45 mm
(Sd)780 cm²


EDIT: Updates & milestones

enclosure design for dual 15HP1060's w/ 30hz F3 - exterior dims 39w x 25h x 38.5d
build begins
build done, music tests begin
video
measurement begins
comparison of measurement to sim

Last edited by Jennygirl; 8th October 2014 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 21st September 2014, 07:32 PM   #2
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I forgot to mention, the enclosure size requirement I am looking to meet this tapped horn I will possibly be building for the 15HPs is 18"W x 17"H x 39"D (for one).

Hopefully I would be able to find a long enough horn length and large enough mouth area for 35hz F3 with the 17x18 width/height. Not sure if this is possible, and hornresp is still rather confusing to me. I understand the principles though.

Thank you, sorry I know there are a million of these threads.
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Old 21st September 2014, 08:35 PM   #3
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Alright these are the hornresp parameters I am using for the driver, could be way off because I am no expert with the program

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 21st September 2014, 09:59 PM   #4
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You have about 195 liters in your desired dimensions (if I did the math right). Up to 25 percent of that will be consumed by wood and extra space in the corners.

This is a quick 2 minute sim, it's about the right size and it's got 3:1 compression ratio. I don't recommend that you build this but use it as a starting point to play around in Hornresp. S4 probably isn't big enough to fit the driver in this design, you will have to pay attention to that in small tapped horns.

Click the image to open in full size.

When you get a response you like make sure you simulate the same driver in a ported box with the same low corner, compare both designs at xmax, and make sure the extra size, weight and complexity of the tapped horn is worth the bother.

The sim is the easy part, the fold is much more difficult and time consuming. So it might be worth it to research and find if there are any existing plans with the size and tuning you want and see if your driver will work in it.

Last edited by just a guy; 21st September 2014 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 21st September 2014, 11:36 PM   #5
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Thanks guy, this is a much better sim than I was able to get and you did it in two minutes. I think I have a ways to go with learning hornresp.

As an option I can also have one box with two drivers, 39w x 17h x 39d
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Old 21st September 2014, 11:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennygirl View Post
Thanks guy, this is a much better sim than I was able to get and you did it in two minutes. I think I have a ways to go with learning hornresp.
It's just practice. Soon you will be able to know exactly which inputs make specific changes and when that happens you can sim very quickly. I was doing this long before there were sliders in Hornresp loudspeaker wizard, the sliders make everything exponentially easier and faster so when you know what you want and what changes to make to get there it only takes a couple of minutes.

Quote:
As an option I can also have one box with two drivers, 39w x 17h x 39d
The more flexible you are with dimensions the easier this will be. For example if you wanted a tall skinny single fold, that can be designed and folded in rough form in a few minutes or maybe an hour if you want to draw it in Sketchup and verify all measurements in your plans are perfect. When you start into multiple folds, different flare rates, and an exact set of dimensions it needs to fit into things get tricky really fast and it takes exponentially longer.
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Old 22nd September 2014, 12:14 AM   #7
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Yeah I realize it is kind of a small area for a deep digging TH, if not impossibly small for what I want. What I do love about my stadiumhorns is their directivity- which is what I see as one of the greatest aspects of TH design besides efficiency.

Thank you for sharing your experience with me, I am still just a beginner when it comes to TH design- however I am very capable with CAD work and fabrication. That part doesn't worry me that much.

I am thinking though looking at the vented box graphs it won't be that much better. And, I already have the vented box built & working well enough. I was just trying to see if the TH could possibly be better.. I would love to have that directivity.

Here is the setup as it is now, finished it yesterday and it was chrisomed last night with a 100 person dance party. The crowd seemed to love it, but I will always want more

Click the image to open in full size.

I also realize that with TH I will not be able to swing a 2 way system. I have subs crossing to the HF compression horns at around 1.2khz. Sounds crystal clear, definitely the best mobile system I have made thus far! But.. as I said I know it could be better.
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Old 22nd September 2014, 12:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennygirl View Post
Yeah I realize it is kind of a small area for a deep digging TH, if not impossibly small for what I want.
If that's where you're planning to use them, a simple fold will do the job. In fact, I'm pretty sure that I've seen at least one car audio pickup build that had THs in the tray that were laid our just like that, with only one fold. Easy stuff.

Hint: You can easily expand the section near the driver to accommodate it, with little change in response.

A good TH will give you at least 3~6dB increase in efficiency compared to a vented alignment, AND give you a lower F3 as well. Note than even if the HornResp sims suggest the response may be similar to that of a vented alignment, the truth is that the TH's LF performance does not suffer from compression at high output levels like a vented alignment does, so they're still better in that regard. The cons of THs are the larger box size requirement and of course you can't really use them above around 100 Hz or so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennygirl View Post
I also realize that with TH I will not be able to swing a 2 way system.
That's correct - you'll need to go three-way. And you'll need some pretty good DSP to address the TH's response aberrations outside of its passband too. But IMO it's worth it if you can swing the extra space required.
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Old 22nd September 2014, 04:55 AM   #9
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Currently running a minidsp 2x4 for EQ & crossover. I've been using those things in all of my systems for a few years now and love them! This is my first build going in a car, though. Usually I do off-grid battery powered setups.

Speaking of that, could I still use the 2x4 and run the mids mono? Then I wouldn't have to get the 2x8.

The thing about this truck is that it's actually a 1st gen toyota 4runner (4 seater suv, before suv's became gas guzzling luxury vans). I would really like to keep the back seats up and usable even with the sub box in there. Here is a shot of the layout and how the current system packs down (compression drivers unclip and go behind the seats)

Click the image to open in full size.

With the seats down I could have a much bigger box, but I like having the back seats for the DJ and equipment to sit hence the 39x39 footprint in the short cargo bed. This is a rock crawling sound monster

I would be okay with making it a little taller, up to 20" or so. So biggest enclosure size would be 39w x 20h x 39d = 500L. Then come the mids, I think I would probably have to mount those on the roll bar in a transmission line style box with the CD's. It would surely look ridiculous, but I'm kind of into that
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Old 22nd September 2014, 07:12 AM   #10
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transmission line.. i meant MTTM
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