Ok summer is here (at least spring semester is done) and the ijit begins to fidget -- what, oh what, to build next? I still would like to build a real TH with my 2x 15" Alpines. For weeks, they have been working well in the Frankenclosure which apparently is quite close to what an optimum Vented for two of these Alpines would be (more on that later). Could it be built better? Oh yes, unless you idea of "stylish" is a 2 ft cube with a 4 ft 12" sonotube port coming out the top 
All along I've been trying different ideas in Hornresp. Problem: I have a hard time beating the optimum vented box. Say it ain't so! I thought the TH is the ultimate? Dare I build something as big as 2000 L just for a few more dB of sensitivity? Maybe "yes".
Everything is of course negotiable. But having learned some stuff in the past year (I hope) here are some design goals:
1. I like dual drivers, push-push for the force canceling. Distortion-canceling optional.
2. Conventional construction materials are acceptable. I am willing to consider normal things like Baltic Birch or MDF. Extensive research has shown that alternatives are not all that cheaper, much expensiver, and in many cases dubiouser
3. Specs? Oh yes, the specs! I don't need infra-sonic. But for these drives (Fs=27 Hz), EazyHorn suggests 18 Hz. I want it to be at least as sensitive as a comparable vented would be. Many sims will easily get into low 20s.
4. Size is not really a concern. It won't be moved much after it's built. Not by one person anyway. Utility wise, I would either want it sized so it can be a pedestal/base for my video and other junk OR be a coffee table height (say 2'). Problem: I'm not sure I want a coffee table that is 2' high by 7' x 5' (I calc. ~ 70 cu. ft for the biggest cabinet so far).
It's rainy season here in FL, so I should be able to gondoleer any big needed pieces of wood from the store to my home.
All along I've been trying different ideas in Hornresp. Problem: I have a hard time beating the optimum vented box. Say it ain't so! I thought the TH is the ultimate? Dare I build something as big as 2000 L just for a few more dB of sensitivity? Maybe "yes".
Everything is of course negotiable. But having learned some stuff in the past year (I hope) here are some design goals:
1. I like dual drivers, push-push for the force canceling. Distortion-canceling optional.
2. Conventional construction materials are acceptable. I am willing to consider normal things like Baltic Birch or MDF. Extensive research has shown that alternatives are not all that cheaper, much expensiver, and in many cases dubiouser
3. Specs? Oh yes, the specs! I don't need infra-sonic. But for these drives (Fs=27 Hz), EazyHorn suggests 18 Hz. I want it to be at least as sensitive as a comparable vented would be. Many sims will easily get into low 20s.
4. Size is not really a concern. It won't be moved much after it's built. Not by one person anyway. Utility wise, I would either want it sized so it can be a pedestal/base for my video and other junk OR be a coffee table height (say 2'). Problem: I'm not sure I want a coffee table that is 2' high by 7' x 5' (I calc. ~ 70 cu. ft for the biggest cabinet so far).
It's rainy season here in FL, so I should be able to gondoleer any big needed pieces of wood from the store to my home.
Links and more rambling
Yes, pair of SWS-15D4.
Download specs here:
Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.
My latest hornresp.dat file downloadable at:
http://bmmoser.myweb.usf.edu/shared/TEMP/Hornresp.dat
TB46, the "AS BUILT" sims very close to my "optimal" vented box. Yes, same or better low corner please. At the very least two easy options are:
1. Build a TH that will be perhaps 600L and give 2-3 dB better sensitivity. Low corner about 23 Hz.
2. If I decide vented is the best, build a less hideous (non-Frankenclosure) box (230 Litre more or less).
A corner is available, but space is not an issue. A TH does not benefit from a corner does it?
Between the two, I'd like to have a "coffee table" (cables not a big issue); on the other hand here is a photo of my current "entertainment center" so you can see there is a just a bit of room for improvement
Yes, pair of SWS-15D4.
Download specs here:
Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.
My latest hornresp.dat file downloadable at:
http://bmmoser.myweb.usf.edu/shared/TEMP/Hornresp.dat
TB46, the "AS BUILT" sims very close to my "optimal" vented box. Yes, same or better low corner please. At the very least two easy options are:
1. Build a TH that will be perhaps 600L and give 2-3 dB better sensitivity. Low corner about 23 Hz.
2. If I decide vented is the best, build a less hideous (non-Frankenclosure) box (230 Litre more or less).
A corner is available, but space is not an issue. A TH does not benefit from a corner does it?
Between the two, I'd like to have a "coffee table" (cables not a big issue); on the other hand here is a photo of my current "entertainment center" so you can see there is a just a bit of room for improvement
Attachments
Hi Soldermizer,
GM's suggestion in Post #6 should get you there, if I compared everything correctly its SPL will be a little higher than the response of the BR when both boxes are driven to Xmax.
I'll attach one more suggestion based on a simple single fold box (that's what zobsky suggested in Post #4) that trades of SPL for low frequency extension. For an internal duct width (constant) of 16" the respective S1 duct height is 6", S2 is 6.4", S3 is 14.4" and S4 is 16"; L12 is 7.875", L23 is 157.480" and L34 is 31.496"; or in other words a simple wedge 16"wide going from 6" to 16". For coffee table use: fold more than once.
From the simulations it looks like the Alpine SWS 15D4 is best suited for the BR, but will work in other enclosures too.
Regards,
GM's suggestion in Post #6 should get you there, if I compared everything correctly its SPL will be a little higher than the response of the BR when both boxes are driven to Xmax.
I'll attach one more suggestion based on a simple single fold box (that's what zobsky suggested in Post #4) that trades of SPL for low frequency extension. For an internal duct width (constant) of 16" the respective S1 duct height is 6", S2 is 6.4", S3 is 14.4" and S4 is 16"; L12 is 7.875", L23 is 157.480" and L34 is 31.496"; or in other words a simple wedge 16"wide going from 6" to 16". For coffee table use: fold more than once.
From the simulations it looks like the Alpine SWS 15D4 is best suited for the BR, but will work in other enclosures too.
Regards,
Attachments
First tangent
This thread began entirely too seriously for my usual levity
I was reading on CNET this morning. For a techie, this is much akin to the thrill of receiving a DAK catalog back in the 1980s, and produces the same endorphin rush, and impairment of spending restraint, as dropping off an intoxicated sailor with a fat wallet in front of the city's brothel
Onward to today's silly idea: perhaps my future subwoofer can be adapted so as to have the features of the below-described toy?
The CATable is a workspace designed for your feline friend - CNET
As I have complained in a prior thread, back when I was new at this DIY stuff and life was simple (a 12-foot Sonotube with a driver jammed in one end), I wrote about how some of the cats liked to hide inside it. One cat even didn't mind staying inside, at least at lower volumes.
Since my latest ijit inspirationis for a coffee table sized TH, could it be adapted so that it is a cat toy also? A single fold might be wide enough for the little devils to explore. Also I have "sourced" Alpine woofers which are plastic cone and thus not attractive and also resistant to potential clawing. Win-win!
This thread began entirely too seriously for my usual levity
I was reading on CNET this morning. For a techie, this is much akin to the thrill of receiving a DAK catalog back in the 1980s, and produces the same endorphin rush, and impairment of spending restraint, as dropping off an intoxicated sailor with a fat wallet in front of the city's brothel
Onward to today's silly idea: perhaps my future subwoofer can be adapted so as to have the features of the below-described toy?
The CATable is a workspace designed for your feline friend - CNET
As I have complained in a prior thread, back when I was new at this DIY stuff and life was simple (a 12-foot Sonotube with a driver jammed in one end), I wrote about how some of the cats liked to hide inside it. One cat even didn't mind staying inside, at least at lower volumes.
Since my latest ijit inspirationis for a coffee table sized TH, could it be adapted so that it is a cat toy also? A single fold might be wide enough for the little devils to explore. Also I have "sourced" Alpine woofers which are plastic cone and thus not attractive and also resistant to potential clawing. Win-win!
The time to hesistate is through...
No time to wallow in the mire,
Try now we can only lose [money]
And our love [or in my case, failed builds] become a funeral pyre...
-- The Doors
With few apologies to Jim Morrison, I got the ijit-spiration to consider using ready-made building materials for the Mark II: how about a door blank, also called a door slab? I may be able to indulge my thumb-my-nose-at-convention urge to use alternative materials (e.g. I go cheap and use the $30 "hollow core" -- more likely cardboard matrix core -- door), or something more solid, the $60 solid equivalent (ingredients not disclosed, but likely wood veneer over MDF or even gypsum.
I did some searches today and surprisingly, no mention of using doors for building speakers. I am aware of using Ikea cabinets and such. DIY-ers do use doors for desks (I have seen the inelegant two sawhorses and a door atop.)
Here is a thread on AVS about doors, but for the room, not for the speakers
Choice of wood in interior door: Ranking by density
Preliminary calculations show that a 36" x 80" door top/bottom with 18" height might make a dandy coffee table sub, with around 800 liters room. That is very close to many of my candidates in Hornresp. No law says it has to be a TH; I will model other stuff too.
"There are just four ways to help you unravel, one is to think [drink? would have suited Jim better!], and the other is travel,
One is abandoned up in the hills, One is to love your neighbor til --
His wife gets home!" -- The Doors
No time to wallow in the mire,
Try now we can only lose [money]
And our love [or in my case, failed builds] become a funeral pyre...
-- The Doors
With few apologies to Jim Morrison, I got the ijit-spiration to consider using ready-made building materials for the Mark II: how about a door blank, also called a door slab? I may be able to indulge my thumb-my-nose-at-convention urge to use alternative materials (e.g. I go cheap and use the $30 "hollow core" -- more likely cardboard matrix core -- door), or something more solid, the $60 solid equivalent (ingredients not disclosed, but likely wood veneer over MDF or even gypsum.
I did some searches today and surprisingly, no mention of using doors for building speakers. I am aware of using Ikea cabinets and such. DIY-ers do use doors for desks (I have seen the inelegant two sawhorses and a door atop.)
Here is a thread on AVS about doors, but for the room, not for the speakers
Choice of wood in interior door: Ranking by density
Preliminary calculations show that a 36" x 80" door top/bottom with 18" height might make a dandy coffee table sub, with around 800 liters room. That is very close to many of my candidates in Hornresp. No law says it has to be a TH; I will model other stuff too.
"There are just four ways to help you unravel, one is to think [drink? would have suited Jim better!], and the other is travel,
One is abandoned up in the hills, One is to love your neighbor til --
His wife gets home!" -- The Doors
I built two of those and they are monsters.
Here's a response with your 2 subs in a corner, 50v, 4 ohm total:
Attachments
Yes, pair of SWS-15D4.
Download specs here:
Alpine Electronics of America, Inc.
My latest hornresp.dat file downloadable at:
http://bmmoser.myweb.usf.edu/shared/TEMP/Hornresp.dat
TB46, the "AS BUILT" sims very close to my "optimal" vented box. Yes, same or better low corner please. At the very least two easy options are:
1. Build a TH that will be perhaps 600L and give 2-3 dB better sensitivity. Low corner about 23 Hz.
2. If I decide vented is the best, build a less hideous (non-Frankenclosure) box (230 Litre more or less).
A corner is available, but space is not an issue. A TH does not benefit from a corner does it?
Between the two, I'd like to have a "coffee table" (cables not a big issue); on the other hand here is a photo of my current "entertainment center" so you can see there is a just a bit of room for improvement
Go coffee table!
I'm leaning towards the coffee table...
Actually, putting my stinky feet on it
I grow increasingly enamored by the idea of using slab doors to build most of the box.
Abcdmku, your design (for a single driver) is very close to the "standard" door width: 36". Using my "tinker toy" approach, there "wood" some limitations, especially on length (80"); but for ballpark widths and heights of 24", 30", 36" offfer much flexibility. I'm toying with the idea of a doubled version of the BLH earlier in this thread, to allow for push-push cance forcellation Appearance wise it would be an upgrade of the Frankenclosure, with the only thing in common being a driver on each narrow end of a bench-like box.
Actually, putting my stinky feet on it
I grow increasingly enamored by the idea of using slab doors to build most of the box.
Abcdmku, your design (for a single driver) is very close to the "standard" door width: 36". Using my "tinker toy" approach, there "wood" some limitations, especially on length (80"); but for ballpark widths and heights of 24", 30", 36" offfer much flexibility. I'm toying with the idea of a doubled version of the BLH earlier in this thread, to allow for push-push cance forcellation
Appearance wise it would be an upgrade of the Frankenclosure, with the only thing in common being a driver on each narrow end of a bench-like box.
Just so long as they're solid core, i.e. NO voids! Historically, this means using only NEMA fire rated [commercial] exterior doors, which aren't cheap unless found used. At typical door thicknesses, no bracing is required.
I've no experience with the particleboard variants, but if they're no void rated, then if 2.25" thick, no need to brace these either.
GM
Hi Soldermizer,
GM has a nice design in Post #6. but it does not seem to have any room for a cat (Post #10).
So, here is a box w/ your suggested external dimensions of 80"x36"x18" that can either be a TH or a T-TQWT depending on which external panels you use/remove, and it has a special nook for the cat too. This one would go low. Look at the response using first the Loudspeaker Wizard to apply damping, and then the Filter Wizard to find an approriate filter.
Regards,
GM has a nice design in Post #6. but it does not seem to have any room for a cat (Post #10).
So, here is a box w/ your suggested external dimensions of 80"x36"x18" that can either be a TH or a T-TQWT depending on which external panels you use/remove, and it has a special nook for the cat too. This one would go low. Look at the response using first the Loudspeaker Wizard to apply damping, and then the Filter Wizard to find an approriate filter.
Regards,
Progress report (SORT OF)
Hi! In the past few days, I have actually purchased my slab doors. I chose to go with 36" for top and bottom and 30" for sides or was it 28" ? Anyway, like many of my projects I do the planning as I build
Still to be decided is the interior. Thanks for the sims so far...I am still leaning to a simple TH. However, my best results overall are with what is basically a TL (not sure if I can fold it into my box dimensions. I have sort of boxed myself in, committing to a certain enclosure size.) Still in the running is a BLH that would allow easier implementation of push-push for force cancellation.
Too late, it occurs to me that the relatively nice veneer of the doors has a strip at top and bottom where the door jamb usually would hide it Maybe I'll gold leaf it (not likely).
Latest tangent (unless you count my month long infatuation with Android tablets) is this:
It's not new (just search "Klayman" here) but as far as I can tell, if you look at his patent (5177329) figure two, he has built a combination tapped horn, Transflex and ported speaker all in one
I read two of the shorter threads (has ANYONE really read the entire "collaborative tapped horn" one? Ridiculously long!) and what remains unclear to me is whether Klayman really managed to get both a 1/4 and a 1/2 wave resonator in this enclosure (so he claims) as well as low distortion.
I am aware (or suspicious that) merely having a patent awarded does not mean the scheme actually works! Has anyone built or modeled this beast? Trying to imagine how in Hornresp makes my brain hurt
Hi! In the past few days, I have actually purchased my slab doors. I chose to go with 36" for top and bottom and 30" for sides or was it 28" ? Anyway, like many of my projects I do the planning as I build
Still to be decided is the interior. Thanks for the sims so far...I am still leaning to a simple TH. However, my best results overall are with what is basically a TL (not sure if I can fold it into my box dimensions. I have sort of boxed myself in, committing to a certain enclosure size.) Still in the running is a BLH that would allow easier implementation of push-push for force cancellation.
Too late, it occurs to me that the relatively nice veneer of the doors has a strip at top and bottom where the door jamb usually would hide it
Maybe I'll gold leaf it (not likely).Latest tangent (unless you count my month long infatuation with Android tablets) is this:
It's not new (just search "Klayman" here) but as far as I can tell, if you look at his patent (5177329) figure two, he has built a combination tapped horn, Transflex and ported speaker all in one
I read two of the shorter threads (has ANYONE really read the entire "collaborative tapped horn" one? Ridiculously long!) and what remains unclear to me is whether Klayman really managed to get both a 1/4 and a 1/2 wave resonator in this enclosure (so he claims) as well as low distortion.
I am aware (or suspicious that) merely having a patent awarded does not mean the scheme actually works! Has anyone built or modeled this beast? Trying to imagine how in Hornresp makes my brain hurt
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