So it turns out that the best location for the subwoofer

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... is not in or near a corner, but as close as possible to the listening position. In my case, right behind the couch. With about 10 feet of delay in relation to the mains, and level-matched with the mains, the bass sounds like what I'd expect from a good pair of headphones, with the added advantage of the occasional body massage :).

So, if you're still not that satisfied with how your subwoofer integrates with the rest of your system, give nearfield subwoofery a try :).
 
I've been suggesting this approach for years , especially for rooms with difficult room modes

It's the ability to delay the sub relative to the mains that really puts the shine on this arrangement. I'm going to do actual FR measurements at some point, but from what I'm hearing so far, no wubwubwub from LF room modes, and best of all no audible suckouts. Nice!
 
I stumbled upon this approach as a way to conceal my subwoofer. Just bought an apt and was trying to save floor space, so turned my 300L 18" subwoofer into a coffee table by adding 1 1/4" marble on top and running the wires under the floor.
Added some trim to the sub to make it match the rest of The cabinetry that I'm building in the place and voila! Hidden subwoofer and awesome sound at the listening position.
 

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My approach to sub placement is to put it first in the listening position, than go around the room and listen and measure where the bass is the best... than place sub there.

I've used that approach in the past. In fact, that's what I used to determine the previous position of the subwoofer in my living room. It provides a good compromise, but not the best results, at least in this case.
 
Some thoughts and confusions and glad for anybody to explain things to me:

1. Corners give you radiation resistance to lower frequencies. Doesn't that matter a lot?

2. There are a whole bunch of what might be called "proximity experiences" when speakers are not far from ears including stuff like hearing tiny remnants of noise in the system. In addition to being unwelcome, they make the brain-on-stereo confused.

3. I'm not sure as it makes much difference in modest-sized rooms if the speaker sits right at a node or not.

4. It may be upper bass that makes the sound seem bassy and profound rather than any improvement to lower bass.

Ben
 
1. Corners give you radiation resistance to lower frequencies. Doesn't that matter a lot?
2. There are a whole bunch of what might be called "proximity experiences" when speakers are not far from ears including stuff like hearing tiny remnants of noise in the system. In addition to being unwelcome, they make the brain-on-stereo confused.
3. I'm not sure as it makes much difference in modest-sized rooms if the speaker sits right at a node or not.
4. It may be upper bass that makes the sound seem bassy and profound rather than any improvement to lower bass.
Ben,

1. The increase in radiation resistance from corner location can result in more SPL, which may be nullified by room modes and inverse distance SPL loss at a particular listening location.
2. The signal to noise relationship remains the same regardless of proximity, though in the absence of signal, noise becomes more apparent when moved closer (inverse distance law). I don't find "tiny remnants of noise" confusing, but too much noise compared to signal can mask low level signal detail. If a component produces distracting amounts of noise, I'd replace it.
3. A node is a node regardless of room size, though nodes will be smaller in small rooms, making speaker and listening position choices more apparent.
4. Never thought of upper bass as sounding "profound", but if it does to you I agree.

Art
 
Ben,

1. The increase in radiation resistance from corner location can result in more SPL, which may be nullified by room modes and inverse distance SPL loss at a particular listening location.
2. The signal to noise relationship remains the same regardless of proximity, though in the absence of signal, noise becomes more apparent when moved closer (inverse distance law). I don't find "tiny remnants of noise" confusing, but too much noise compared to signal can mask low level signal detail. If a component produces distracting amounts of noise, I'd replace it.
3. A node is a node regardless of room size, though nodes will be smaller in small rooms, making speaker and listening position choices more apparent.
4. Never thought of upper bass as sounding "profound", but if it does to you I agree.

Art
1. The enhanced radiation resistance of a corner lowers the freq at which the air force lets go and the mass control begins. I always thought that was an unqualified good thing - if you like low bass.

2. Yes, S/N remains the same but how much of that grunge you can hear changes. Nobody likes grunge. All gear makes noise and I suspect the math would bear me out on how noxious it would be close up.

3. Do correct me, but room tones are almost comparably stimulated wherever the speaker is located. But there are big differences depending on where you put your ears.

4. No, I don't think upper bass is "profound" nor have I ever liked BR speakers. My question should have been read with the bracketed text as, "It may be upper bass that makes the sound seem bassy and profound [to those who said the bass was loud when speakers were up close] rather than any improvement to lower bass." As a guy who has watched a lot of low freq organ and other music on a spectrum analysis screen, a lot of what some people experience "low" bass, is actually not below 35-40 Hz.

Ben
 
2. Yes, S/N remains the same but how much of that grunge you can hear changes. Nobody likes grunge. All gear makes noise and I suspect the math would bear me out on how noxious it would be close up.
3. Do correct me, but room tones are almost comparably stimulated wherever the speaker is located. But there are big differences depending on where you put your ears.
Ben,

2. The math is simple outdoors, halving the distance to the sound source results in 6.02 dB more level for both signal and noise, so the S/N ratio remains the same regardless of distance. Indoors in a small room, room modes dominate LF frequency response, therefore S/N ratios will be different wherever measured.
In a quiet room, I can't hear any noise from my sub if my ear is more than six inches from it, moving it from its present position about 10 feet distant from the listening position to a foot or two behind would increase its level by around 6-12 dB, while noise would still be undetectable. That said, locating the sub directly behind my LP would not work well from a room layout standpoint, and would require delaying my main speakers for time alignment, so I am content with the present location which provides as much SPL as I care for down to around 20 Hz.
If low, loud bass without requiring new purchases was my main priority, I would move the sub behind the LP, as I have suggested to many apartment dwellers that want to feel their system's bass without upsetting neighbors. In my travel trailer, the sub is located under the couch, it sounds (and feels) massive seated there, while hardly audible over the usual ambient noise outside the trailer.
3.There is wave reciprocity, the position dependent room mode differences you hear work in reverse also. Place a sub at your listening position, then listen (or measure) around the room, the response will change dependent on the position the sub is located. Positions where the sub response sounds and measures smooth (or to your liking) will result in similar response at the listening position when the sub is then moved to that position.
 
1. Corners give you radiation resistance to lower frequencies. Doesn't that matter a lot?

In this case, this particular subwoofer is pretty flat down to 20 Hz. It really doesn't need any boost at low frequencies.


2. There are a whole bunch of what might be called "proximity experiences" when speakers are not far from ears including stuff like hearing tiny remnants of noise in the system. In addition to being unwelcome, they make the brain-on-stereo confused.

There is a minor AC hum, likely due to it having to be fed off a different power outlet. I'll be clearing that up this weekend. It's almost inaudible at the moment anyway. Other than that I'm not noticing any other noise.


3. I'm not sure as it makes much difference in modest-sized rooms if the speaker sits right at a node or not.

I'm hearing a pretty big difference.


4. It may be upper bass that makes the sound seem bassy and profound rather than any improvement to lower bass.

I'm sensing two big differences - less audible "ringing" at low frequencies, and a more integrated upper bass response. As soon as I can I will be taking some measurements to see if what I'm hearing matches what I think is going on.

Another advantage of near-field subwoofer placement is that you can turn down the gain a bit on the sub, which gives a bit more headroom. A disadvantage however is that with the lower subwoofer level the overall response sounds a bit bass-shy in other locations in the living room. I expect that problem will be addressed when I add in the two other subwoofers :).

Note: In my living room, the couch is located somewhere between 1/3 to 1/4 the length of the room away from the back wall. This gives quite a bit of space to locate a subwoofer or two. SWMBO has put up with my experimenting so far :).
 
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