Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Subwoofers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th March 2014, 10:12 AM   #1
swegen is offline swegen  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Default The single best driver for music in a sealed enclosure...

Is it the TC Sounds LMS Ultra 5400?

I want to build 1 or perhaps 2 subwoofers for a 2 channel stereo setup, crossing to bookshelf monitors. I plan on using an iNuke 6000 DSP to power the bass.

Does the LMS-U take the cake when it comes to sound quality for music? What other viable options are there?
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2014, 09:16 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Inductor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cascais
No, to first question. (In the list there are probably hundred of drivers from thousands in the market).
Yes to the second. It's being used worldwide, also in studio rooms (they might not know of a better one to compare with). Or the location might also play a role like if you are overseas or not.

Nuff said, it's a very good driver that looks good.
To start looking at your question (best list) I need to know what sealed internal volume (net) are you speaking about... And when you say music I also take it in consideration that you are designing a subwoofer only and not a passive 3-way type speaker with different optimal Q relations for crossover and desired frequency output.
Also it helps to know what speakers are you going to use with the subs for satellites, plus the room/studio type and dimensions (some people come back later saying it's for a car).

Last edited by Inductor; 29th March 2014 at 09:21 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2014, 09:49 PM   #3
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
diyAudio Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by swegen View Post
... crossing to bookshelf monitors.
you may have to cross it very low, maybe around 50hz
so you may better choose a woofer with low Fs

don't know the TC sound woofer
I would not choose one with those huge 'car-sub rubber boot surround'
but rather look at a woofer type like SB Acoustic 12"

Quote:
Originally Posted by swegen View Post
Does the LMS-U take the cake when it comes to sound quality for music? What other viable options are there?
that said, I have not yet built a sub, only thought about it, but cannot afford that 21"
__________________
sometimes we know very little, and sometimes we know too much
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2014, 11:27 PM   #4
saramac is offline saramac  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: massachusetts
That is an awesome driver all wright, the best? I don't know. It's dammed close if it isn't. Have you seen the Stereo integrity 24" ? For cheaper money the Sundown x series 18 inch looks tempting as well. I have two Sound Splinter RLP-18,s ( triple slug TC-9 motors ) ported, powered by the Inuke nu 6000. Bass is not a problem for me I can tell you. Crossed over to bookshelf monitors? Really? Beautiful overkill, no doubt. Do you know how loud two big time 18 inch subs get? Way louder than any bookshelf speaker. Not to be a wet blanket.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th March 2014, 11:37 PM   #5
sine143 is offline sine143  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
I would not use the SI 24 for music. Sky High LE means it drops off terribly up high.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2014, 06:34 AM   #6
swegen is offline swegen  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
The speakers I will be putting together are Jeff Bagby's Kairos. I want bass that matches the quality of the Satori drivers, which people have been raving about.

The room is 17 ft. x 13 ft. x 9 ft. (2000 cubic ft.) and it's also open to a medium sized bathroom. I'll be EQ'ing the sub(s) with the DSP on the iNuke + REW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
No, to first question. (In the list there are probably hundred of drivers from thousands in the market).
Yes to the second. It's being used worldwide, also in studio rooms (they might not know of a better one to compare with). Or the location might also play a role like if you are overseas or not.

Nuff said, it's a very good driver that looks good.
To start looking at your question (best list) I need to know what sealed internal volume (net) are you speaking about... And when you say music I also take it in consideration that you are designing a subwoofer only and not a passive 3-way type speaker with different optimal Q relations for crossover and desired frequency output.
Also it helps to know what speakers are you going to use with the subs for satellites, plus the room/studio type and dimensions (some people come back later saying it's for a car).
It will be a subwoofer only, and I want to use the smallest sealed box I can build without compromising output. I don't need it to hit single digit frequencies or output extreme dB levels, as it will only be for music. Plus, I will be running the sub on a single 15amp line (120V) so I will definitely be limiting the power. I think the TC Sounds can take 4-5,000 watts but i'll be limiting it to less than 2,000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
you may have to cross it very low, maybe around 50hz
so you may better choose a woofer with low Fs

don't know the TC sound woofer
I would not choose one with those huge 'car-sub rubber boot surround'
but rather look at a woofer type like SB Acoustic 12"



that said, I have not yet built a sub, only thought about it, but cannot afford that 21"
I was planning on crossing it a little higher, at around 80Hz, as the Kairos use relatively small 6.5" woofers. I figure with a driver as capable and high quality as the LMS-U, it'd be worthy for it to cover a larger spectrum of the bass. I'm wondering if a smaller driver is more suitable for my purposes. Perhaps the TC Sounds LMS-R 15" or 12"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saramac View Post
That is an awesome driver all wright, the best? I don't know. It's dammed close if it isn't. Have you seen the Stereo integrity 24" ? For cheaper money the Sundown x series 18 inch looks tempting as well. I have two Sound Splinter RLP-18,s ( triple slug TC-9 motors ) ported, powered by the Inuke nu 6000. Bass is not a problem for me I can tell you. Crossed over to bookshelf monitors? Really? Beautiful overkill, no doubt. Do you know how loud two big time 18 inch subs get? Way louder than any bookshelf speaker. Not to be a wet blanket.
That's one of my main concerns. Is a driver like the LMS-U total overkill for my needs? I have seen that SI 24" and it's an awesome piece of work, but way beyond my needs. Again this isn't for HT so output and sub 10Hz bass isn't a priority.

Ultimately, i'm wondering if I can get away with a lesser driver while still maintaining the same SQ as the LMS 5400. Other drivers i'm considering are the IST UXL-18, Acoustic Elegance TD18H+/15H+, or possibly the Aurasound NS18-992-4A 18" if I can find one on sale. Should I be looking at smaller drivers? I want to stick with 2 enclosures maximum.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2014, 06:51 AM   #7
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
diyAudio Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
with bookshelf speakers, most of the sub Xmax may be a waste
__________________
sometimes we know very little, and sometimes we know too much
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2014, 08:48 AM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto and Delray Beach, FL
Making credible low notes shouldn't require a $1600 driver, even discounted.

Whether cost is any constraint or not, better to have multiple, heterogeneously located subs. By any reasonable use of the word "best," that should be better than any single-sub or the routinely observed neatly symmetrically located twin pair or the vanishingly small benefits of this monstrously perfected driver.

Ben
__________________
Dennesen ESL tweets, Dayton-Wright ESL (110-3200Hz), mixed-bass Klipschorn + giant OB using 1960's Stephens woofer; Behringer DSP
HiFi aspirations since 1956
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2014, 09:27 AM   #9
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Calvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: close to Basel
Hi,

The TC Sound are for sure some of the best drivers for very compact subwoofers.
Most astonishing I found these super-high-mass drivers quite musical.
Most drivers of the heavyweight, large-n-thick surround style require dozens of watts before they realize that music knocks at the front door.
Driven hard they perform like all muscles no brain.
Not so the TC Sound.
They offer a very high degree of low level resolution and definition already at lowest power levels, but add enormous slam when required.

You may safely choose a Qt around 0.8 in a CB and equalize electronically.
X-overed just around or below the Fs - and preferrably below the room modes- YouŽll be rewarded with exceptional clean and tight bass.
The superlong excursion capabilities of the LMS-U, LMS-R and the Epic series will provide for sufficient dynamic headroom.

But as You want to use a small satellite speaker in a not overly large room the 15" and even more the 18" is absolute overkill.
Such large drivers tend to become sonically superior, meaning that -similar to a bad aligned BR- there seems to be continous output that overpowers anything else.
Quite impressive for 5 minutes, annoying for the rest of the time.
IŽd rather choose a pair of 10" or 12" in a push-push arrangement to cancel mechanical impulses.
The smaller drivers are also more cost-efficient, as the LMS-R15 is already at the upper limit of priceworthyness and the LMS-U 18" is very expensive, even if one of these may perfectly replace two LMS-R 15".

The casing needs to be as stiff as possible -I chose concrete globes (75cm dia for 2x15", 60cm dia for 2x12", a pair of 18" would require 90cm dia.), which resulted in very compact cabinets, that are as free from noise and vibration as no other (see my website).
The 15"er globe plays from 16Hz-50Hz, driven by 2x1.500W in a ~20.000cft room and is certainly not undersized.

Just as side-note .... keep the weight of the drivers in mind!
The 17kg of the LMS-R15 already present a serious issue regarding mounting and fixation of the drivers.
The 36kg(!!) of the LMS-Ultra are simply not handable by just one person.
Insure that all mounting bolts are tightened even and equal to keep an airtight seal between basket and cabinet.

jauu
Calvin
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2014, 01:36 PM   #10
swegen is offline swegen  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
Hi,

The TC Sound are for sure some of the best drivers for very compact subwoofers.
Most astonishing I found these super-high-mass drivers quite musical.
Most drivers of the heavyweight, large-n-thick surround style require dozens of watts before they realize that music knocks at the front door.
Driven hard they perform like all muscles no brain.
Not so the TC Sound.
They offer a very high degree of low level resolution and definition already at lowest power levels, but add enormous slam when required.

You may safely choose a Qt around 0.8 in a CB and equalize electronically.
X-overed just around or below the Fs - and preferrably below the room modes- YouŽll be rewarded with exceptional clean and tight bass.
The superlong excursion capabilities of the LMS-U, LMS-R and the Epic series will provide for sufficient dynamic headroom.

But as You want to use a small satellite speaker in a not overly large room the 15" and even more the 18" is absolute overkill.
Such large drivers tend to become sonically superior, meaning that -similar to a bad aligned BR- there seems to be continous output that overpowers anything else.
Quite impressive for 5 minutes, annoying for the rest of the time.
IŽd rather choose a pair of 10" or 12" in a push-push arrangement to cancel mechanical impulses.
The smaller drivers are also more cost-efficient, as the LMS-R15 is already at the upper limit of priceworthyness and the LMS-U 18" is very expensive, even if one of these may perfectly replace two LMS-R 15".

The casing needs to be as stiff as possible -I chose concrete globes (75cm dia for 2x15", 60cm dia for 2x12", a pair of 18" would require 90cm dia.), which resulted in very compact cabinets, that are as free from noise and vibration as no other (see my website).
The 15"er globe plays from 16Hz-50Hz, driven by 2x1.500W in a ~20.000cft room and is certainly not undersized.

Just as side-note .... keep the weight of the drivers in mind!
The 17kg of the LMS-R15 already present a serious issue regarding mounting and fixation of the drivers.
The 36kg(!!) of the LMS-Ultra are simply not handable by just one person.
Insure that all mounting bolts are tightened even and equal to keep an airtight seal between basket and cabinet.

jauu
Calvin
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I'm now heavily considering 2 LMS-R 15"s in separate enclosures. I've read that 2 of them are essentially equal to a single LMS-U, with the added benefit of being able to optimally place them individually within the room. I'm thinking I might as well go for the 15" over the 12" as it's only a $70 difference between the 2 drivers.

My only concern with the LMS-R is that i've read they require a good amount of equalizing to sound right. Also, sensitivity is a little low and there have been a few accounts of people saying the mid-bass is lacking, around 50Hz and above. Kind of reluctant because that's where the meat of the bass is for a lot of music.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best bang-for-the-buck 12" sub driver for sealed enclosure??? murillollirum Subwoofers 8 20th February 2013 03:38 AM
Need help with 5.25" driver for sealed enclosure MrDragon1 Full Range 11 1st March 2010 12:18 AM
Sealed Enclosure Driver Madmike2 Subwoofers 2 19th May 2005 12:53 AM
Multiple bass drivers in single sealed enclosure... richardkrol Multi-Way 14 5th March 2004 02:34 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:59 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2