Hey guys, i recently bought a Pioneer TS-W310 to try out what kind of sound I could get for the price and after building the box I was only able to push out 105dB continuos.
Some things to help out would be the internal volume is 2.15 in3 and the cross sectional area of the port (slotted) is 43.5in2.
I should also note that i am getting excessive port noise for some reason, I have designed it in WinISD and according to everything I've been reading i should have no port noise at all with the dimensions of the box.
Before i was able to get 115db continuous out of a crappy 10 inch sub (no brand). Which leaves me to wonder why this one is performing so badly.
Any thoughts?
Some things to help out would be the internal volume is 2.15 in3 and the cross sectional area of the port (slotted) is 43.5in2.
I should also note that i am getting excessive port noise for some reason, I have designed it in WinISD and according to everything I've been reading i should have no port noise at all with the dimensions of the box.
Before i was able to get 115db continuous out of a crappy 10 inch sub (no brand). Which leaves me to wonder why this one is performing so badly.
Any thoughts?
Hi Darius
Just want to make sure that I understand your exact situation... "Before"... I comment. I've already looked at the driver (TS-W310D4) specs/parameters, "if it's the same one"... Pioneer TS-W310D4 (tsw310d4) 12" Dual 4-Ohm Champion Series Car Subwoofer You also mentioned a ten inch sub:
But maybe you were refering to a different one. If this link is not your driver, please let us know, but "For now", I'll assume it is.
The spec sheet lists 95db sensitivity @1w/1m. You report 105db (@ full power?) continuous sinewave; I don't know under what conditions you measured your sub's output, but for a 10db gain (95db to 105db), you should only need to feed this driver 10 watts. If you are "givin' it all you got", then... "something ain't right"! Am I missing something? Also, could you post your actual outer box dimensions, and actual port dimensions (port length, inner height and width)? It seems that something is seriously wrong, but I'd like to know a bit more; no presumptions! What amp are you using/watts. Is the box properly braced? Please give how the box is tuned, Fb/f3. What is the xover setting and are you using a high pass filter? Sorry for asking sooo many questions, but this info is needed to see what's going on, from a remote location.
rigtec, cheers
Well first off, TS-W310 30cm 4? Multi-use Single Voice Coil Subwoofer (1000W) - Pioneer Speakers, Subwoofers
Thats the sub i purchased, not the D4 version
The 10 inch sub was about 30 bucks, it also had no parameters whatsoever.
I measure all the subs i have in the same condition and environment, In my room (Which is soundproofed) With an Xti1000 bridged amp (1,400w RMS)
As for the dimensions (All in inches):
Outer:
W-22
H-16.25
L -22.25
Port (Inner):
H-14.5
W-3
L-33
I am using 3/4 MDF so the only real bracing in from the interior vent wall, other than that the box is only made up of 8 pieces of wood.
The box is tuned to 37Hz (as for the filters the only one setup is on the amp at 100hz)
Also for the measurement i place an SPL meter one meter away from the face of the box.
I think i attatched a picture of the 10 inch sub, according to my meter it hit 120 peak and 110 continuous
Attachments
Well I've made sure i have more than enough surface area, could it be that i haven't angled any of the bends or smoothed them out? Because i am getting ALOT of noise at the tuning freq.
The link you provided has the T/S parameters.......but just a few...most are missing.
WINisd accepted the few specifications (I thought it wouldn't) & created some very different results.
This being what we have to work with, very little but "telling"
4 Ohm, 95 Db, Qts 1.16, Fs 41 Hz, Vas 1.13 cubic foot, Xmax, 11 mm
All the available parameters tells us this driver is poorly damped at 1.16, has a rather high resonant frequency at 41........
What sim I did get was a low EBP making for a sealed system, not a ported set-up. Sealed it behaves erratically a big response hump -3.1Db@32.23Hz up to +2.96Db@54.27Hz.....177.9 Liters, not surprisingly a Qtc of 1.26.
The sim switched over to ported gets an enclosure over 1000 Liters..
Are there other T/S parameters? I don't get it.
____________________________________________________Rick......
WINisd accepted the few specifications (I thought it wouldn't) & created some very different results.
This being what we have to work with, very little but "telling"
4 Ohm, 95 Db, Qts 1.16, Fs 41 Hz, Vas 1.13 cubic foot, Xmax, 11 mm
All the available parameters tells us this driver is poorly damped at 1.16, has a rather high resonant frequency at 41........
What sim I did get was a low EBP making for a sealed system, not a ported set-up. Sealed it behaves erratically a big response hump -3.1Db@32.23Hz up to +2.96Db@54.27Hz.....177.9 Liters, not surprisingly a Qtc of 1.26.
The sim switched over to ported gets an enclosure over 1000 Liters..
Are there other T/S parameters? I don't get it.
____________________________________________________Rick......
Yeah the rest of the parameters came in the manual once i bought it, but there is a spec sheet online
Pioneer user manual
you have to zoom in quite a bit, but almost everything you need is posted there.
I've uploaded what I got in WinISD and what the actual built box is currently designed to
Attachments
Is this picture the actual sub you built? A 33 inch port will display some resonance i think.
The one with the blue cone is the 10 inch subwoofer (1.5 cu with 30hz tuning)
Below is the subwoofer i'm asking about (12 inch, 2.15cu with 37hz tuning)
Attachments
Pioneer TS-W310S4
DariusMyszka,
The S4 (not the D4), in the link you provided.
TS-W310S4 30 cm 4? Enclosure-Type Single Voice Coil Subwoofer (1400W) - Pioneer Speakers, Subwoofers
Is it for home or car stereo.
If for car use the schematic (enclosure) provided by Pioneer.
If for home use a sealed 50L to 80L as big as you can speaker.
Doesn't mean you can't use BR or other is just the driver is made for that type in a home application. In this case we will have to look at the alignments.
Your reference: 2.15ft³ = 60.881L
Are you modeling a BR with this net volume?
Length of the port? or tuning?! It's a very long port, are you counting with the volume of it (ports + drivers)?
You can not do too much (or thinking) with out knowing what you have. This needs some control on excursion or be limited, if you go the BR enclosure way.
Let's say you have a 60L tuned to 25Hz.
It's sensitivity is ~89.6 dB/2.83V/m and SPL 1.00 m/116.1 dB (max. theoretical) 950W/4Ohms.
DariusMyszka,
The S4 (not the D4), in the link you provided.
TS-W310S4 30 cm 4? Enclosure-Type Single Voice Coil Subwoofer (1400W) - Pioneer Speakers, Subwoofers
Is it for home or car stereo.
If for car use the schematic (enclosure) provided by Pioneer.
If for home use a sealed 50L to 80L as big as you can speaker.
Doesn't mean you can't use BR or other is just the driver is made for that type in a home application. In this case we will have to look at the alignments.
Your reference: 2.15ft³ = 60.881L
Are you modeling a BR with this net volume?
Length of the port? or tuning?! It's a very long port, are you counting with the volume of it (ports + drivers)?
You can not do too much (or thinking) with out knowing what you have. This needs some control on excursion or be limited, if you go the BR enclosure way.
Let's say you have a 60L tuned to 25Hz.
It's sensitivity is ~89.6 dB/2.83V/m and SPL 1.00 m/116.1 dB (max. theoretical) 950W/4Ohms.
Attachments
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In your case, you say:
Your reference: Port 43.5in² = 280.64cm²
This will give for a speaker/sub with 60L@37Hz
a port length of: 93cm = 36 39⁄64in.
(I don't believe is your case...)
And you will need protection under 30Hz (max. excursion with 650W/4Ohms) not very reasonable for a sub.
Your reference: Port 43.5in² = 280.64cm²
This will give for a speaker/sub with 60L@37Hz
a port length of: 93cm = 36 39⁄64in.
(I don't believe is your case...)
And you will need protection under 30Hz (max. excursion with 650W/4Ohms) not very reasonable for a sub.
Attachments
If you re-read post # 3 you'll see the OP said he has the TS-W310 ..Not the TS-W310S4 nor the TS-W310D4 .All three of them are different, some are suitable for ported, some are not.
Since I refer to post 3, he notes the TS-W310 solely.
Given that this IS what he has, a ported alignment won't work.
With the following TS parameters, a large sealed enclosure(As big as possible or practical) is the only way to get this driver to work best.
If this indeed is the correct driver since the EBP is at 30.82 it is best as a sealed type.
300W, 4ohm, Re 3.0, Le 1.26, Fs 41, Qms 9.18, Qes 1.33, Qts 1.16, Vas 32.1L, BL 9.9 (Note, the sensitivity ratings are "rated" with the caveat "In car"")??
Maybe the OP used the "S4" or the "D4" variants for designing his enclosure?
This seems highly likely.
___________________________________________________Rick.........
Since I refer to post 3, he notes the TS-W310 solely.
Given that this IS what he has, a ported alignment won't work.
With the following TS parameters, a large sealed enclosure(As big as possible or practical) is the only way to get this driver to work best.
If this indeed is the correct driver since the EBP is at 30.82 it is best as a sealed type.
300W, 4ohm, Re 3.0, Le 1.26, Fs 41, Qms 9.18, Qes 1.33, Qts 1.16, Vas 32.1L, BL 9.9 (Note, the sensitivity ratings are "rated" with the caveat "In car"")??
Maybe the OP used the "S4" or the "D4" variants for designing his enclosure?
This seems highly likely.
___________________________________________________Rick.........
You're right about it being the W310, not the S4 or D4. The EPB is very low but i thought even though it is such a bad number i could get the numbers posted on WinISD, but it gets nowhere close to 117 at 50hz.
Also could the very low EPB cause all the port noise or is it just bad port designing?
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The very high Qts and low EBP don't mean anything in this application, yes for a speaker to sound good and have an even frequency response those parameters matter. But here the user does not care about a huge peak in response and poor sonic performance, all he cares about is getting a big SPL reading.
How thick is your baffle where the speaker is mounted? The noise could be turbulence from the rear of the speaker caused by thick baffle or strangled basket design which is being emitted from the port.
Did you take account of the volume the port uses up and make your box bigger by that amount? Tuning higher than you think would give exactly the symptoms you have got.
How thick is your baffle where the speaker is mounted? The noise could be turbulence from the rear of the speaker caused by thick baffle or strangled basket design which is being emitted from the port.
Did you take account of the volume the port uses up and make your box bigger by that amount? Tuning higher than you think would give exactly the symptoms you have got.
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That's what I said...
Rick, I don't know what's the point of the OP. Or he is not aware of it, or he wants something he is not expressing /explaining... (possible?!) It's obvious, not with the same enclosure he is being stubborn with.
Many members just leave after the fact...
Another possibility that I did not test is the bandpass. It comes well represented for car audio. It has a 3dB atten. @37/38Hz to 93/100Hz.
The port OP is mentioning for 37Hz tun would be ~90cm...
Maybe OP is in a competition insisting in SPL... I don't know.
In this case is 1.00 m/113.6 dB (max.) witout car gain, for ~800W@3.5 Ohms (theoretical).
Attachments
That's what I said...
Rick, I don't know what's the point of the OP. Or he is not aware of it, or he wants something he is not expressing /explaining... (possible?!) It's obvious, not with the same enclosure he is being stubborn with.
Many members just leave after the fact...
Another possibility that I did not test is the bandpass. It comes well represented for car audio. It has a 3dB atten. @37/38Hz to 93/100Hz.
The port OP is mentioning for 37Hz tun would be ~90cm...
Maybe OP is in a competition insisting in SPL... I don't know.
In this case is 1.00 m/113.6 dB (max.) witout car gain, for ~800W@3.5 Ohms (theoretical).
Seems like a realistic model, I wonder what frequency he's doing the spl test at...?
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