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Old 27th October 2013, 10:29 AM   #1
hzwart is offline hzwart  South Africa
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Cool Beyma 18G50 for best Sub in quality PA

Hi all

Can someone please assist me in getting a plan for Beyma 18G50. Unfortunately, I have 4 of these units and would like to use them for high quality PA applications. (Response must be from 34Hz to 100Hz at least @ 100dB 1W)

I know they are not suited for TL or Manifold designs but would prefer to use them in these applications.

For a TL, the size gets to 479 liters. I have seen the Beyma 18G50's in a manifold design but have no Hornresp simulation of it to see if it what I am looking for?

Are there some other designs whit better performance and/or response?

Appreciate any feedback from the experts?

Regards
Henk
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Old 27th October 2013, 04:39 PM   #2
rigtec is offline rigtec  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hzwart View Post
Hi all

Can someone please assist me in getting a plan for Beyma 18G50. Unfortunately, I have 4 of these units and would like to use them for high quality PA applications. (Response must be from 34Hz to 100Hz at least @ 100dB 1W)

I know they are not suited for TL or Manifold designs but would prefer to use them in these applications. For a TL, the size gets to 479 liters. I have seen the Beyma 18G50's in a manifold design but have no Hornresp simulation of it to see if it what I am looking for?

Are there some other designs whit better performance and/or response?

Regards
Henk
Hi hzwart,

Not quite sure just what your primary goal is. You said that you wanted to use the beyma G50's for a "P.A." application, which may be very different from what a "TL", or "IB manifold" is designed to do. I'm very familiar with "Beyma", and consider it to be a "fair" choice, as compared to some other pro-sound audio drivers available. As I have discussed in a previous topic on this website (Speaker recommendation for 3 cu-ft sealed box (NHT1259 replacement)), you need to be very vigilant, when shopping and reading spec sheets. Beyma, as well as a few others, chooses to use their own (not the standard) method when publishing their driver test results.

For example. The standard method for testing the drivers "sensitivity" is feeding the driver 1 watt which is described as: 2.83 volts into an 8 ohm load, and measuring it's audible output (with a microphone) at a distance of 1 meter away from the driver's center. I won't go into any of the technical details, for the sake of those who may trying to stay awake .

My point. Beyma decided to use take the 2.83 volts, and feed it into a 2 ohm driver (which is equivalent to 4 watts), giving this drivers a 6 decibel advantage in the end result; you can take a look for yourself at their own spec sheet. Look closely at the sensitivity measurement.

It says: 98 dB 2.83v @ 1m @ 2ohm, Take a look.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...55123115,d.eW0

In reality, this driver's true 1 watt SPL would be 92db, not 98; that's a big difference on the stage when your amps are dishing out everything they've got any ready to start clipping! In my own opinion, Beyma's are "good", but if you need very high sensitivity (like 98-100 db), then get a driver that can deliver "a true" 98 to 100db. Other than that, I think they'll do just fine on all other aspects of "Pro-work".

Here's a driver that'll "Take a lickin'...".

18LW1400 Eighteen Sound 18LW1400 18" Speakers - Eighteen Sound 18LW1400 18" subwoofer - Eighteen Sound 18LW1400 is a 2,000 watt extended low frequency woofer that has goes down to 28Hz. Eighteen Sound 18LW1400 woofers are available here. 18 Sound spe

I have two, used in a very large "bass amplifier" application, but can also do pro audio, which is what they were designed for. These are much like the JBL 2242H (if you're familiar), but likely just a tad better, due to their "cooling system".

rigtec, cheers
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Old 27th October 2013, 05:44 PM   #3
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hzwart View Post
Hi all

Can someone please assist me in getting a plan for Beyma 18G50. Unfortunately, I have 4 of these units and would like to use them for high quality PA applications. (Response must be from 34Hz to 100Hz at least @ 100dB 1W)

I know they are not suited for TL or Manifold designs but would prefer to use them in these applications.

For a TL, the size gets to 479 liters. I have seen the Beyma 18G50's in a manifold design but have no Hornresp simulation of it to see if it what I am looking for?

Are there some other designs whit better performance and/or response?

Appreciate any feedback from the experts?

Regards
Henk
The Beyma 18 G50 can be used in Reflex or Folded Horns. I believe Beyma promoted the 18 G 50 for Folded Horns. It is a very versatile driver and efficient. However that design you made is not the best method to take full advantage of that driver.

Go to Beyma and download the TS Parameters. It will be in their discontinued section.
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Old 27th October 2013, 05:47 PM   #4
rigtec is offline rigtec  United States
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hzwart said:

"...I know they are not suited for TL or Manifold designs but would prefer to use them in these applications..."


Sorry,

forgot to say, you may very well be able to use the "18G50" for a "IB Manifold" application. The thing is that in an infinite baffle (home theater), you'll need to be aware of the "mechanical limitations" (mech lim) imposed regarding this particular alignment. Typically speaking, drivers operating in an enclosed environment, have a degree of support, as the air in the enclosure assists in keeping the cone/voicecoil assm from traveling too far in one direction or the other.

In an IB application (free air), you must exercise good judgement, as to how much power can "safely" be applied; perhaps through the implementation of an electronic "high pass" (ultrasonic) filter or a "signal compressor", limiting the spikes in the program material or music. As far as the TL alignment, someone else here (I'm sure) will be able to help you with that as this is a bit more complicated, to which I have no (zero) insight. Best to you!

rigtec
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Old 27th October 2013, 05:54 PM   #5
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigtec View Post
hzwart said:

"...I know they are not suited for TL or Manifold designs but would prefer to use them in these applications..."


Sorry,

forgot to say, you may very well be able to use the "18G50" for a "IB Manifold" application. The thing is that in an infinite baffle (home theater), you'll need to be aware of the "mechanical limitations" (mech lim) imposed regarding this particular alignment. Typically speaking, drivers operating in an enclosed environment, have a degree of support, as the air in the enclosure assists in keeping the cone/voicecoil assm from traveling too far in one direction or the other.

In an IB application (free air), you must exercise good judgement, as to how much power can "safely" be applied; perhaps through the implementation of an electronic "high pass" (ultrasonic) filter or a "signal compressor", limiting the spikes in the program material or music. As far as the TL alignment, someone else here (I'm sure) will be able to help you with that as this is a bit more complicated, to which I have no (zero) insight. Best to you!

rigtec

The Manifold shown is inefficient for PA. Thats why EV stop making that design decades ago. He is better off using Folded Horns as the Beyma 18 G 50 meets the requirements to perform in a Folded Horn.
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Old 27th October 2013, 06:03 PM   #6
rigtec is offline rigtec  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMNIFEX View Post
The Manifold shown is inefficient for PA. Thats why EV stop making that design decades ago. He is better off using Folded Horns as the Beyma 18 G 50 meets the requirements to perform in a Folded Horn.
Hi OMNIFEX,

You're absolutely right! I wasn't suggesting that the 18G50 be used in a "Manifold Technology" type sub enclosure. I was talking about using it for "Home theater" only, as in a, "through the wall" (free air) manifold.

Cheers

Last edited by rigtec; 27th October 2013 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 27th October 2013, 06:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigtec View Post
For example. The standard method for testing the drivers "sensitivity" is feeding the driver 1 watt which is described as: 2.83 volts into an 8 ohm load, and measuring it's audible output (with a microphone) at a distance of 1 meter away from the driver's center. I won't go into any of the technical details, for the sake of those who may trying to stay awake .

My point. Beyma decided to use take the 2.83 volts, and feed it into a 2 ohm driver (which is equivalent to 4 watts), giving this drivers a 6 decibel advantage in the end result; you can take a look for yourself at their own spec sheet. Look closely at the sensitivity measurement.

It says: 98 dB 2.83v @ 1m @ 2ohm, Take a look.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...55123115,d.eW0
Not quite sure where you see that. Could you be a bit more precise because all I see is an FR curve taken at 1W@1m on axis and an impedance curve that shows an 8Ohm driver. What am I missing?
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Old 27th October 2013, 06:10 PM   #8
nkdk is offline nkdk  Denmark
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Hi maby the 184 sub would do it

Speakerplans.com

nkdk
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Old 27th October 2013, 06:16 PM   #9
epa is offline epa  Netherlands
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forget sensivety figurs in the ts,they never tell how they preform in a cabinet.
the op sugested he wanted ~100 db from 35 hz(f3?) up.
so a 600 ltr th cab,or an even larger horn.

this cab wil be under 600 ltrs
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Last edited by epa; 27th October 2013 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 27th October 2013, 06:29 PM   #10
rigtec is offline rigtec  United States
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Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
Not quite sure where you see that. Could you be a bit more precise because all I see is an FR curve taken at 1W@1m on axis and an impedance curve that shows an 8Ohm driver. What am I missing?
If you scroll down to the "Technical specs" section, see "Sensitivity", you'll see a 2 ohm driver being fed 2.83v. This translates to 4 watts input (or 6db).

Greg

Last edited by rigtec; 27th October 2013 at 06:34 PM.
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