Hey Guys, i´ve searched for a high excoursion 18 inch driver, which is able to work in a small tapped horn ( not the 18Sound 18NLW9600).
I found out that the FI BL18 seems to be very stable, and does a nice frequency response for a car hifi driver.
here you go:
https://www.fndaudio.com/detail.asp?item=4138&node=65,174,509,0,0,0&SID=643296239
The groupdelay is very high, thats the only thing i don´t like.
What i like is that the the excoursion is 15mm of 18mm @ 1,5kw
So here a calculations with Hornresp:
http://image-upload.de/image/KerQle/10b76ee173.jpg
i´ve been so amazed that folded that horn in Google Sketchup, and its really small.
http://image-upload.de/image/bvYTSV/5463d45c59.jpg
Dimensions are 910mm x 700mm x 572mm.
i know that the bracing must be very strong, cause there are 302gramms of moved mass.
maybe you´ve got some suggestions to this simulation, is it a testbuilt possible or necessary?
I found out that the FI BL18 seems to be very stable, and does a nice frequency response for a car hifi driver.
here you go:
https://www.fndaudio.com/detail.asp?item=4138&node=65,174,509,0,0,0&SID=643296239
The groupdelay is very high, thats the only thing i don´t like.
What i like is that the the excoursion is 15mm of 18mm @ 1,5kw
So here a calculations with Hornresp:
http://image-upload.de/image/KerQle/10b76ee173.jpg
i´ve been so amazed that folded that horn in Google Sketchup, and its really small.
http://image-upload.de/image/bvYTSV/5463d45c59.jpg
Dimensions are 910mm x 700mm x 572mm.
i know that the bracing must be very strong, cause there are 302gramms of moved mass.
maybe you´ve got some suggestions to this simulation, is it a testbuilt possible or necessary?
Hello wBorchers, thanks for sharing your findings, it's allways nice to see new takes on the TH magic.
(the folloving terms are 4-segment sim based)
I usually aim for a S4 greater or at least equal to Sd, and a S2 no less then 1/3 Sd, preferably higher, also depending on the application, a shorter L23+L34 usually bosts the sensitivity and lessen the groupdelay and other less attractive factors since the size of the driver it self drives the size of the horn, but this is folding dependent.
Keep in mind that a 18" usually has lesser cone stiffness and magnet assembly "power" for lack of a better word, relativly to what we ususally find in smaller transducers such as a 15" or 12".
Just some ramblings
(the folloving terms are 4-segment sim based)
I usually aim for a S4 greater or at least equal to Sd, and a S2 no less then 1/3 Sd, preferably higher, also depending on the application, a shorter L23+L34 usually bosts the sensitivity and lessen the groupdelay and other less attractive factors since the size of the driver it self drives the size of the horn, but this is folding dependent.
Keep in mind that a 18" usually has lesser cone stiffness and magnet assembly "power" for lack of a better word, relativly to what we ususally find in smaller transducers such as a 15" or 12".
Just some ramblings
Hi GM
"With such a high compression ratio"<
i´m new in the "tappedhorn business" ^^, can you tell me were you see how high the compression ratio is and why thats a reason for the horn to play with high distortion at high power levels.
hi martinsson
usally i am trying to keep L23 and L34 as short as possible, that last horn i´ve done has been for the 18Sound 18W1000, S2 is about 600 for this Speaker.
What i searched for is 18 inch speaker, which is able to handle low frequencys with high sensitivy in a small horn.
for example:
the 18Sound speaker needs 600cm² to play linear, the Fi BL needs only 340cm².
my last 18Sound Tapped Horn is Keystone folded and has 408 Liters. This Horn is smaller and plays lower.
"With such a high compression ratio"<
i´m new in the "tappedhorn business" ^^, can you tell me were you see how high the compression ratio is and why thats a reason for the horn to play with high distortion at high power levels.
hi martinsson
usally i am trying to keep L23 and L34 as short as possible, that last horn i´ve done has been for the 18Sound 18W1000, S2 is about 600 for this Speaker.
What i searched for is 18 inch speaker, which is able to handle low frequencys with high sensitivy in a small horn.
for example:
the 18Sound speaker needs 600cm² to play linear, the Fi BL needs only 340cm².
my last 18Sound Tapped Horn is Keystone folded and has 408 Liters. This Horn is smaller and plays lower.
Greets!
The compression ratio [CR] is the ratio of driver effective piston area [Sd] compared to the cross sectional area [CSA] of the throat it's loading or in this case the area at 'S2', which as Martinssen noted should be limited to Sd/3 [3:1 CR] at most for any high power app and many drivers can't even handle this much unless it's marketed as a compression horn driver or at least has a high power rating in a small band-pass [BP] alignment as some car audio 'sub' drivers do.
Only one way to know for sure though, so if you decide to try it, please let us know how it performs and hope you don't damage the driver in testing.
GM
Okay the CS S2 is smaller than 1 / 3 SD.
usually i am working with 1/2 SD for the CS S2, so about 600cm².
i just wanted to call attention to this driver, cause its extremly stable cause of its big excoursion, and its ability to play low notes in small horns.
The Fi BL18 Horn is 910mm x 700mm x 572mm and is able to play until 37Hz.
The Tapped horn with 18Sound 18W1000 i want to build is 950mm x 850mm x 532mm and is able to play until 48hz. And this is what i like, and i just wanted tell you that this driver is maybe usable for stable high SPL Tapped horns. I just wanted to share my discovery with this forum
if got money enough i am sure ill test that built.
usually i am working with 1/2 SD for the CS S2, so about 600cm².
i just wanted to call attention to this driver, cause its extremly stable cause of its big excoursion, and its ability to play low notes in small horns.
The Fi BL18 Horn is 910mm x 700mm x 572mm and is able to play until 37Hz.
The Tapped horn with 18Sound 18W1000 i want to build is 950mm x 850mm x 532mm and is able to play until 48hz. And this is what i like, and i just wanted tell you that this driver is maybe usable for stable high SPL Tapped horns. I just wanted to share my discovery with this forum
if got money enough i am sure ill test that built.
The Stereo Integrity HT18 driver has ~23mm XMax (seems to vary from what I've seen online, between 20mm and 23.5mm, but XMech seems to be ~35mm so there is a safe buffer zone) and is $219 shipped in the US, I believe.
Alternatively you can go all out and get an RE XXX with something like 54mm XMax and more XMech... lol
Alternatively you can go all out and get an RE XXX with something like 54mm XMax and more XMech... lol
Throat area 181/1210 cone area is a compression ratio of 6.68/1, sounds like too much pressure even for a heavy duty cone.
The Keystone has less than 3/1 compression ratio using about the same mms (304.5).
The smaller horn sim drops off at about twice the rate of the Keystone.
What type of amp would you use for the 1.4 ohm load this speaker presents?
Art
Attachments
So my 18Sound Keystone folded horn got 1134 / 600, that makles 1,89 CR and that seems to be okay.
the Fi Bl18 is able to play with a S2 of 403cm², but linearity and sensitivy is worse than before.
Its a Dual 2 Ohm Voice coil, ill bridge to 4 Ohm and use my Crown Ce2000 in bridge mode if i will built something like this in the future. This Fi Bl18 Horn is just a thought, and i learned something new.
btw. which programm did you use in your screenshot on tzhe right side?
the Fi Bl18 is able to play with a S2 of 403cm², but linearity and sensitivy is worse than before.
Its a Dual 2 Ohm Voice coil, ill bridge to 4 Ohm and use my Crown Ce2000 in bridge mode if i will built something like this in the future. This Fi Bl18 Horn is just a thought, and i learned something new
.btw. which programm did you use in your screenshot on tzhe right side?
I think you are overestimating the cross sectional area of the Keystone a bit, S1 starts at only 73.9mm.
The screenshot is Smaart V6, to copy the screen on a Mac computer just requires holding down "command" "shift" and "4", selecting the desired area with mouse/trackpad, then release, and paste in with the DIY attachment browser.
My 18Sound Horn is another Horn and has nothing to do with this Fi Bl18 Horn.
this is my 18Sound Horn i am talking about, S1 and S2 are 600cm²
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/239588-tappedhorn-18sound-18w1000-2.html
The Fi Bl 18 Horn is just a thought, the 18Sound Horn will be my next built.
this is my 18Sound Horn i am talking about, S1 and S2 are 600cm²
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/239588-tappedhorn-18sound-18w1000-2.html
The Fi Bl 18 Horn is just a thought, the 18Sound Horn will be my next built.
Last edited:
After much experience in the 1970s and 1980s, found I don't like driving low tilt back cabinets like yours (or Cerwin Vega's) around, having fell over the top of them hitting bumps
.In general, don't like casters mounted to subs, as most vibrate at certain frequencies and require bungie cords wrapped around to avoid that problem.
After the gig, if someone forgets to release the bungies, they get wrapped up in the casters and someone drops the grill in to the gutter..
Other than that, have no opinion, since I never saw any measured results and never have heard one.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.