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Old 10th October 2013, 05:56 AM   #1
Dilbret is offline Dilbret  United States
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Default Replace Stands with Subwoofers

I have Scanspeak 2-ways on stands and was thinking about replacing the stands with subwoofers to boost the low end. Kind of like the Watt/Puppy setup, but not. Stands are about 22 inches high x 9inches wide x 15 deep.

I was planning on using a generic plate amp with crossover for the moment, then maybe trying to create my own at a later date.

I was thinking either single or dual 8-9 inch drivers facing forward (lots of clutter to the side). Just because I already have Scanspeak, I was looking at the 9 inch Revelator sub at Madisound, but it would be pricy for two of them.

Any suggestions? Drivers? Amp? Setup?

Any input would be appreciated.

Dilbret
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Old 10th October 2013, 05:01 PM   #2
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Location: Cascais
Hi,
There's not a lot of options when you are saving money (/and space...).
(And) After saying this:
It's going to be very difficult for me or other members -- but not impossible, depends of the available drivers in the market (US) and overseas including the vintage/discontinued drivers -- to give you acceptable options.
So with your questions and conditions I would tell you to investigate what you need or where you can go?!
So let's say you can use this type of amps for a start - maybe later building or buying more powerful (in relation to the power needed by the driver you end up with) ones, just an idea.
Amps
Technics REQ0251-1 100W Subwoofer Plate Amplifier 309-046
SB-AS500 100W Class AB Plate Amplifier 309-047
I would like to say (to) buy a good driver or that brand/model, but you said "no" ( - I'm not buying a 200/300 USD driver, kind of...). Let's find a bargain then... let's shopping!
ScanSpeak 22W/4534G00 Discovery 8" Woofer 4 ohm The Madisound Speaker Store

For the enclosure you have a certain configuration. You can make a BR configuration for a better low frequency extension, that is what you are looking for, besides the sub<100 USD...
You have available about 30/28L of net space/volume (internal) depending of the ply you are using... but, that's not enough for this driver (disregard the volumes given by the spreadsheet/Madisound in this case. You will need to double (or make as much space/volume available above your starting volume of ~30L/net) this volume so make it higher of dipper then you can have an acceptable project. This is an acceptable conservative alignment using this same driver with a low Q, good LF extension, and all for an acceptable price. Use 2 drivers and 2 subs. You can turn the subs face/front to the sides. Make (extra) space internal for vents/ports and driver displacement/volume.
VB = 56.0 L, FB = 30.0 Hz
Port diameter = 4in
Port length = 16 or 17in (Check final net/internal volume/frequency alignment)

Other possible drivers (enclosures >50L):
SB Acoustics SB23NRXS45-8, 8" Woofer
SEAS Prestige CA22RNX (H1288) 8" Woofer
Morel MW266 8" Woofer (This driver is good in a sealed enclosure)
SEAS Prestige L22RN4X/P (H1208) 8" Alu Woofer (This driver behaves very well in a 45L BR with a good (and long: length 25/26") 4" port and firing to the side.
Madisound Approx 8" Woofers


And finally.. I found a driver that matches exactly what you have in the first post.
Conditions #1 price: is a "bargain" (not a sale/special) at todays date (Madisound Price: $118.40 (each)) is exactly what you need spec wise for volume/net available, good Q (perfect) with low extension and power.
condition #2 specs: it fits in your available space (net) VB = 24/25 L with good sensitivity (88 dB), with a good frequency response that you can fit in the front baffle and a quality driver by Seas.
condition #3 power: it deliveries a good SPL (~100 dB@2m) with a 8 Ohm 60/100W power amp.
Seas Prestige 8" Woofer CD22RN4X H1192
SEAS CD22RN4X, VB = 25.0 L, FB = 30.0 Hz (pic below)
Port diameter = 3in
Port length = 26/27in to the back because of port air noise (at max. SPL only).
Dilbret, you are a very lucky man... have a good diy build and have fun (post pics).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Seas Prestige 8in Woofer CD22RN4X H1192.jpg (203.9 KB, 282 views)
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Old 10th October 2013, 05:19 PM   #3
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This 6" driver also works in a similar enclosure (net ~24L), SB-Acoustics SB17NRX35-8
I'm taking the time just mentioning it because of the price and good quality, it has less max. SPL than the previous 8" driver.
SB, SB17NRX35-8
http://meniscusaudio.com/images/SB17NRX.pdf
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Old 10th October 2013, 06:05 PM   #4
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Hello Dilbret

If you like to keep the cost low, consider the Dayton SD215A-88. I have a pair of these and surprisingly, they are pretty good. I loaded it in a 25L bass reflex box. You can use 2 of them to give you the height. Click here for my TS of the SD215A-88.

As for the plate amp, the Bash 300 from PE looks like a good buy. I don't have one though. I use an external 24dB/oct electronic crossover with a power amp.

Regards
Mike
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Old 10th October 2013, 07:41 PM   #5
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Those technics plate amplifiers need a low load 2 ohm max I'd say.

You could do a lot worse than a Technics amplifier per side and and 2 of these per
side : Tang Band W6-1139SIF 6-1/2" Paper Cone Subwoofer Speaker 264-919

Two will need about 1 cuft vented, 28Hz to 30Hz looks good to
me. You will need a big port, or a smaller carefully flared port.

rgds, sreten.
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Last edited by sreten; 10th October 2013 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 11th October 2013, 02:25 PM   #6
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilbret View Post
I have Scanspeak 2-ways on stands and was thinking about replacing the stands with subwoofers to boost the low end. Kind of like the Watt/Puppy setup, but not. Stands are about 22 inches high x 9inches wide x 15 deep.

I was planning on using a generic plate amp with crossover for the moment, then maybe trying to create my own at a later date.

I was thinking either single or dual 8-9 inch drivers facing forward (lots of clutter to the side). Just because I already have Scanspeak, I was looking at the 9 inch Revelator sub at Madisound, but it would be pricy for two of them.

Any suggestions? Drivers? Amp? Setup?

Any input would be appreciated.

Dilbret
I like the dayton ref HO series for playing low and clean in a small box:

Dayton Audio RSS210HO-8 8" Reference HO Subwoofer 8 ohm 295-459

Ported in one cubic ft you should goet good output down to 20-25 hz.

Not a huge fan of plate amps, I prefer a class-d pro audio amp with built in DSP. Behringer nu3000dsp, etc.

Keep in mind that if you mount a small speaker on a sub-stand, the stand either has to be extremely heavy and inert, or the speaker has to be floated/isolated from the sub.
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Old 11th October 2013, 03:56 PM   #7
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Location: Cascais
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Chua View Post
Hello Dilbret

If you like to keep the cost low, consider the Dayton SD215A-88. I have a pair of these and surprisingly, they are pretty good. I loaded it in a 25L bass reflex box. You can use 2 of them to give you the height. Click here for my TS of the SD215A-88.
Problem is to find it in the US (parts-express).
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Old 11th October 2013, 04:04 PM   #8
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Location: Cascais
Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
Tang Band W6-1139SIF 6-1/2" Paper Cone Subwoofer Speaker...

Two will need about 1 cuft vented, 28Hz to 30Hz looks good to
me. You will need a big port, or a smaller carefully flared port.

rgds, sreten.
sreten,
Problem is I don't find it suitable for a BR, with so many problems with port size vs. length for one possible alignment, unless you have a good (the) solution (alignment). Using less power with a "long vent/port" but I doubt... Make it aperiodic or TL/TQWT might be a good solution, if nothing else.
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Old 11th October 2013, 04:23 PM   #9
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Hi turbodawg,
Very nice driver with good LF extension. It will need a 3" diam./~28" length port. It is a driver that will need another class of amp, as you mention, more like 300/500 W.
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Old 12th October 2013, 12:52 AM   #10
Dilbret is offline Dilbret  United States
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Wow,
A lot of info to sort through. Thanks (Especially Inductor).

Just so you know, I am not opposed to spending more money if the drivers are really good. I believe in bang for the buck.

I will have more time this weekend to sort though the posts and try to put together a more refined response to everyone. Thanks again.
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