I have Scanspeak 2-ways on stands and was thinking about replacing the stands with subwoofers to boost the low end. Kind of like the Watt/Puppy setup, but not. Stands are about 22 inches high x 9inches wide x 15 deep.
I was planning on using a generic plate amp with crossover for the moment, then maybe trying to create my own at a later date.
I was thinking either single or dual 8-9 inch drivers facing forward (lots of clutter to the side). Just because I already have Scanspeak, I was looking at the 9 inch Revelator sub at Madisound, but it would be pricy for two of them.
Any suggestions? Drivers? Amp? Setup?
Any input would be appreciated.
Dilbret
I was planning on using a generic plate amp with crossover for the moment, then maybe trying to create my own at a later date.
I was thinking either single or dual 8-9 inch drivers facing forward (lots of clutter to the side). Just because I already have Scanspeak, I was looking at the 9 inch Revelator sub at Madisound, but it would be pricy for two of them.
Any suggestions? Drivers? Amp? Setup?
Any input would be appreciated.
Dilbret
Hi,
There's not a lot of options when you are saving money (/and space...).
(And) After saying this:
It's going to be very difficult for me or other members -- but not impossible, depends of the available drivers in the market (US) and overseas including the vintage/discontinued drivers -- to give you acceptable options.
So with your questions and conditions I would tell you to investigate what you need or where you can go?!
So let's say you can use this type of amps for a start - maybe later building or buying more powerful (in relation to the power needed by the driver you end up with) ones, just an idea.
Amps
Technics REQ0251-1 100W Subwoofer Plate Amplifier 309-046
SB-AS500 100W Class AB Plate Amplifier 309-047
I would like to say (to) buy a good driver or that brand/model, but you said "no" ( - I'm not buying a 200/300 USD driver, kind of...). Let's find a bargain then... let's shopping!
ScanSpeak 22W/4534G00 Discovery 8" Woofer 4 ohm The Madisound Speaker Store
For the enclosure you have a certain configuration. You can make a BR configuration for a better low frequency extension, that is what you are looking for, besides the sub<100 USD...
You have available about 30/28L of net space/volume (internal) depending of the ply you are using... but, that's not enough for this driver (disregard the volumes given by the spreadsheet/Madisound in this case. You will need to double (or make as much space/volume available above your starting volume of ~30L/net) this volume so make it higher of dipper then you can have an acceptable project. This is an acceptable conservative alignment using this same driver with a low Q, good LF extension, and all for an acceptable price. Use 2 drivers and 2 subs. You can turn the subs face/front to the sides. Make (extra) space internal for vents/ports and driver displacement/volume.
VB = 56.0 L, FB = 30.0 Hz
Port diameter = 4in
Port length = 16 or 17in (Check final net/internal volume/frequency alignment)
Other possible drivers (enclosures >50L):
SB Acoustics SB23NRXS45-8, 8" Woofer
SEAS Prestige CA22RNX (H1288) 8" Woofer
Morel MW266 8" Woofer (This driver is good in a sealed enclosure)
SEAS Prestige L22RN4X/P (H1208) 8" Alu Woofer (This driver behaves very well in a 45L BR with a good (and long: length 25/26") 4" port and firing to the side.
Madisound Approx 8" Woofers
And finally.. I found a driver that matches exactly what you have in the first post.
Conditions #1 price: is a "bargain" (not a sale/special) at todays date (Madisound Price: $118.40 (each)) is exactly what you need spec wise for volume/net available, good Q (perfect) with low extension and power.
condition #2 specs: it fits in your available space (net) VB = 24/25 L with good sensitivity (88 dB), with a good frequency response that you can fit in the front baffle and a quality driver by Seas.
condition #3 power: it deliveries a good SPL (~100 dB@2m) with a 8 Ohm 60/100W power amp.
Seas Prestige 8" Woofer CD22RN4X H1192
SEAS CD22RN4X, VB = 25.0 L, FB = 30.0 Hz (pic below)
Port diameter = 3in
Port length = 26/27in to the back because of port air noise (at max. SPL only).
Dilbret, you are a very lucky man... have a good diy build and have fun (post pics).
There's not a lot of options when you are saving money (/and space...).
(And) After saying this:
It's going to be very difficult for me or other members -- but not impossible, depends of the available drivers in the market (US) and overseas including the vintage/discontinued drivers -- to give you acceptable options.
So with your questions and conditions I would tell you to investigate what you need or where you can go?!
So let's say you can use this type of amps for a start - maybe later building or buying more powerful (in relation to the power needed by the driver you end up with) ones, just an idea.
Amps
Technics REQ0251-1 100W Subwoofer Plate Amplifier 309-046
SB-AS500 100W Class AB Plate Amplifier 309-047
I would like to say (to) buy a good driver or that brand/model, but you said "no" ( - I'm not buying a 200/300 USD driver, kind of...). Let's find a bargain then... let's shopping!
ScanSpeak 22W/4534G00 Discovery 8" Woofer 4 ohm The Madisound Speaker Store
For the enclosure you have a certain configuration. You can make a BR configuration for a better low frequency extension, that is what you are looking for, besides the sub<100 USD...
You have available about 30/28L of net space/volume (internal) depending of the ply you are using... but, that's not enough for this driver (disregard the volumes given by the spreadsheet/Madisound in this case. You will need to double (or make as much space/volume available above your starting volume of ~30L/net) this volume so make it higher of dipper then you can have an acceptable project. This is an acceptable conservative alignment using this same driver with a low Q, good LF extension, and all for an acceptable price. Use 2 drivers and 2 subs. You can turn the subs face/front to the sides. Make (extra) space internal for vents/ports and driver displacement/volume.
VB = 56.0 L, FB = 30.0 Hz
Port diameter = 4in
Port length = 16 or 17in (Check final net/internal volume/frequency alignment)
Other possible drivers (enclosures >50L):
SB Acoustics SB23NRXS45-8, 8" Woofer
SEAS Prestige CA22RNX (H1288) 8" Woofer
Morel MW266 8" Woofer (This driver is good in a sealed enclosure)
SEAS Prestige L22RN4X/P (H1208) 8" Alu Woofer (This driver behaves very well in a 45L BR with a good (and long: length 25/26") 4" port and firing to the side.
Madisound Approx 8" Woofers
And finally..
I found a driver that matches exactly what you have in the first post.Conditions #1 price: is a "bargain" (not a sale/special) at todays date (Madisound Price: $118.40 (each)) is exactly what you need spec wise for volume/net available, good Q (perfect) with low extension and power.
condition #2 specs: it fits in your available space (net) VB = 24/25 L with good sensitivity (88 dB), with a good frequency response that you can fit in the front baffle and a quality driver by Seas.
condition #3 power: it deliveries a good SPL (~100 dB@2m) with a 8 Ohm 60/100W power amp.
Seas Prestige 8" Woofer CD22RN4X H1192
SEAS CD22RN4X, VB = 25.0 L, FB = 30.0 Hz (pic below)
Port diameter = 3in
Port length = 26/27in to the back because of port air noise (at max. SPL only).
Dilbret, you are a very lucky man... have a good diy build and have fun (post pics).
Attachments
This 6" driver also works in a similar enclosure (net ~24L), SB-Acoustics SB17NRX35-8
I'm taking the time just mentioning it because of the price and good quality, it has less max. SPL than the previous 8" driver.
SB, SB17NRX35-8
http://meniscusaudio.com/images/SB17NRX.pdf
I'm taking the time just mentioning it because of the price and good quality, it has less max. SPL than the previous 8" driver.
SB, SB17NRX35-8
http://meniscusaudio.com/images/SB17NRX.pdf
Budget Sub for Music
Hello Dilbret
If you like to keep the cost low, consider the Dayton SD215A-88. I have a pair of these and surprisingly, they are pretty good. I loaded it in a 25L bass reflex box. You can use 2 of them to give you the height. Click here for my TS of the SD215A-88.
As for the plate amp, the Bash 300 from PE looks like a good buy. I don't have one though. I use an external 24dB/oct electronic crossover with a power amp.
Regards
Mike
Hello Dilbret
If you like to keep the cost low, consider the Dayton SD215A-88. I have a pair of these and surprisingly, they are pretty good. I loaded it in a 25L bass reflex box. You can use 2 of them to give you the height. Click here for my TS of the SD215A-88.
As for the plate amp, the Bash 300 from PE looks like a good buy. I don't have one though. I use an external 24dB/oct electronic crossover with a power amp.
Regards
Mike
Hi,
Those technics plate amplifiers need a low load 2 ohm max I'd say.
You could do a lot worse than a Technics amplifier per side and and 2 of these per
side : Tang Band W6-1139SIF 6-1/2" Paper Cone Subwoofer Speaker 264-919
Two will need about 1 cuft vented, 28Hz to 30Hz looks good to
me. You will need a big port, or a smaller carefully flared port.
rgds, sreten.
Those technics plate amplifiers need a low load 2 ohm max I'd say.
You could do a lot worse than a Technics amplifier per side and and 2 of these per
side : Tang Band W6-1139SIF 6-1/2" Paper Cone Subwoofer Speaker 264-919
Two will need about 1 cuft vented, 28Hz to 30Hz looks good to
me. You will need a big port, or a smaller carefully flared port.
rgds, sreten.
Last edited:
I like the dayton ref HO series for playing low and clean in a small box:
Dayton Audio RSS210HO-8 8" Reference HO Subwoofer 8 ohm 295-459
Ported in one cubic ft you should goet good output down to 20-25 hz.
Not a huge fan of plate amps, I prefer a class-d pro audio amp with built in DSP. Behringer nu3000dsp, etc.
Keep in mind that if you mount a small speaker on a sub-stand, the stand either has to be extremely heavy and inert, or the speaker has to be floated/isolated from the sub.
sreten,
Problem is I don't find it suitable for a BR, with so many problems with port size vs. length for one possible alignment, unless you have a good (the) solution (alignment). Using less power with a "long vent/port" but I doubt... Make it aperiodic or TL/TQWT might be a good solution, if nothing else.
Wow,
A lot of info to sort through. Thanks (Especially Inductor).
Just so you know, I am not opposed to spending more money if the drivers are really good. I believe in bang for the buck.
I will have more time this weekend to sort though the posts and try to put together a more refined response to everyone. Thanks again.
A lot of info to sort through. Thanks (Especially Inductor).
Just so you know, I am not opposed to spending more money if the drivers are really good. I believe in bang for the buck.
I will have more time this weekend to sort though the posts and try to put together a more refined response to everyone. Thanks again.
Dilbret, If you have issues with the solutions (drivers) that are given here, giving port noise or the length of ports, for the max. output power in use (condition) then use some alternative Aperiodic Design, damping or stuffing the ports a little for the total Q, maybe with the use of an oversized diam. or the use of passive radiators are good alternatives. You can then test and audition for final best results with your prototype.
Also count always with the extra sized ports (ports+drivers) for total net volume you have available.
Also count always with the extra sized ports (ports+drivers) for total net volume you have available.
This is a great idea. I may do it myself. I am very thrilled with many Peerless drivers. Likely the best value in drivers these days. The 6.5 and 8 inch Nomex cone drivers are seriously excellent and at a small fraction the cost of the hoity-toity names like Scanspeak. I'd put four of the Peerless 6.5 or 8 inch Nomex cone woofers in a well damped, well braced, closed box tower/stand, and actively EQ them to be acoustically pretty flat to 32 HZ. That would sound incredible, and I believe work better with typical listening room acoustics then any single woofer on each side. The 6.5 inch Nomex drivers are on sale right now for $50 each at either Parts Express or Madisound. I'm using them and can't believe how good they sound with the above mentioned active EQ. I have the analog active EQ circuit designed if you're interested (I will share the schematic). It has four dual opamps total, including the level control buffer. Flat above 100HZ, but with a 12dB peak at 32 HZ, and then a steep rolloff below that. You might want to add a 4 pole Linkwitz-Riley crossover at 100HZ. You can lift that off the linkwitzlab.com website.
I did the same thing with these PE buyout subs (two per side):
6-1/2" Subwoofer Speaker 299-114
And the Dayton 70W plate amp. For me, having multiple subs with cheaper drivers worked. I never had the chance to compare it to a quality single larger sub, but I imagine this setup with multiple small drivers at multiple placements was the more musical choice. No HT on my stereo setup.
I was totally happy until I decided to change my bookshelf speakers. One of the unforeseen downfalls was the appearance of the sub-stands once I had a not-exactly-matching-width speaker on top. If I were to do this again, I'd go for a slim width over something exactly matching the speakers on top and also go with a contrasting finish on the sub stands. Two slightly different shades of maple was not a big wife pleaser.
6-1/2" Subwoofer Speaker 299-114
And the Dayton 70W plate amp. For me, having multiple subs with cheaper drivers worked. I never had the chance to compare it to a quality single larger sub, but I imagine this setup with multiple small drivers at multiple placements was the more musical choice. No HT on my stereo setup.
I was totally happy until I decided to change my bookshelf speakers. One of the unforeseen downfalls was the appearance of the sub-stands once I had a not-exactly-matching-width speaker on top. If I were to do this again, I'd go for a slim width over something exactly matching the speakers on top and also go with a contrasting finish on the sub stands. Two slightly different shades of maple was not a big wife pleaser.
Thanks all. I am starting to go through all the ideas you have given me. I am liking the idea of dual Tang Bands each side with a plate amp. One possible issue is that with the fairly narrow tower, the plate size might be a problem. I suppose I could cut down the amp plates, but don't want to do that.
Some of the designs you volunteered suggested a pretty long vent, which could be a problem given my dimension limits. I would actually prefer sealed, but I know it won't go as low.
I am not looking to go down to 20 Hz, just extend the range of my current system (which goes to 48ish Hz).
Other than the fact that I already am using Scan Speak drivers, one reason I was looking at the Revelator subwoofer was that (according to Madisound anyway) it would go to 33 Hz in a sealed box.
I am still looking into other drivers you suggested (Peerless, Dayton) and thinking about crossover/amplifier options, but I am getting what I wanted, some ideas that I didn't think of, and that is huge. Thanks again.
Some of the designs you volunteered suggested a pretty long vent, which could be a problem given my dimension limits. I would actually prefer sealed, but I know it won't go as low.
I am not looking to go down to 20 Hz, just extend the range of my current system (which goes to 48ish Hz).
Other than the fact that I already am using Scan Speak drivers, one reason I was looking at the Revelator subwoofer was that (according to Madisound anyway) it would go to 33 Hz in a sealed box.
I am still looking into other drivers you suggested (Peerless, Dayton) and thinking about crossover/amplifier options, but I am getting what I wanted, some ideas that I didn't think of, and that is huge. Thanks again.
After looking around I am now thinking about dual Dayton 210HO 4 Ohm in series on each side. I like the price of the 6" TB's, but it won't go as low as I would like.
Sealed box and using a plate amplifier. I can get all 4 drivers for about the price of 1 Revelator sub. Sizing the box will be tough. I will probably have to make it deeper than I would prefer to get the volume, but that's the way it goes.
Do you guys have any more advice? I really appreciate the input.
Sealed box and using a plate amplifier. I can get all 4 drivers for about the price of 1 Revelator sub. Sizing the box will be tough. I will probably have to make it deeper than I would prefer to get the volume, but that's the way it goes.
Do you guys have any more advice? I really appreciate the input.
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