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Old 9th October 2013, 07:34 PM   #1
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Default So few comments on eq

I am surprised I have seen so few comments on electronic eq for subs. Audyssey sure can't cut it from my experience.
Reckhorn S1 looks to be perfect for my office for high quality stereo.
The DSPSpeaker Antimode looks very interesting for my media room.
Looks like the Onix Rocket R Des is long gone. Shame as it looked sweet.
I have a Behringer DCX and it is slow to boot, noisy and sounds like, well it is a cheap PA unit.

Is the limited advertising and availability why these first few are not mentioned? Any experience with their quality?
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Old 9th October 2013, 09:24 PM   #2
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Never used any. Only used miniDSP and my driverack 260......no complaints they do their job!
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Old 10th October 2013, 12:37 AM   #3
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I recently received a recommendation for a Behringer FBQ1000 as a sub eq.

Thoughts?
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Old 10th October 2013, 06:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeauB View Post
I recently received a recommendation for a Behringer FBQ1000 as a sub eq.

Thoughts?
With 12 parametric EQ filters per channel the FBQ1000 would be usable for the entire L/R signal, and would offer more than enough flexibility as a sub equalizer.

It does not include any delay, so would not be adequate for addressing time alignment, which can be a problem depending on sub location and design.
Horn loaded subs require the top cabinets to be delayed to align properly in the crossover region, so DSP including both PEQ and delay would be more appropriate for them.

Other than reliability issues (which are better with Behringer's new facilities) the FBQ1000 can do everything needed for sub EQ.
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Old 11th October 2013, 02:46 PM   #5
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I have the DSP1124P and it works a treat. Somewhat noisy if you don't have an appropriate gain structure. (same as FBQ1000?)
Simple active crossover after the unit would solve that.
BFD Guide at Home Theater Shack

As I ended up needing only one PEQ in the end I just use the DCX which is dead silent (if you have a correct gain structure).
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Old 12th October 2013, 01:23 AM   #6
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An amplitude shaping device (EQ) is of limited use in fixing a time domain problem (room resonances).

It may measure flat, and it will sound different, but it will not sound 'right'.
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Old 12th October 2013, 10:31 AM   #7
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Originally Posted by djk View Post
An amplitude shaping device (EQ) is of limited use in fixing a time domain problem (room resonances).

It may measure flat, and it will sound different, but it will not sound 'right'.
I disagree totally. Granted, First you deal with position, phase, and when I suffered with the DEQ, I could adjust time ( sounded like garbage thought). But you still have to live in the room provided.

A room node may be suppressed by eq. Only for one position. I happen to sit in one position. Yes, it may cause a dip off the sweet spot, but that is far less noticeable than the peak.

Do you want a perfectly flat 20 to whatever response? We agree, no. You do not want to totally deviate from what your brain expects. But a 12 dB node at 54 Hz sounds bad. When the room gain does not quite come up to even out a low Q sealed box, a bit of boost in needed. A bit of smoothing through the crossover can help. Obviously, one can build custom eq to do this. Many plate amps have a guess at the boost. Usually wrong, but a guess. The Rekhorn crossover has one parametric notch filter and one parametric boost. Sounds reasonable to me. I am ordering one to see how it sounds.

A bit of gentle eq in my room sounds far more "right"
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Old 13th October 2013, 04:17 AM   #8
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"I disagree totally."

Hey, it's your right to be wrong.

You pull out a time domain 12dB peak at any frequency and it will not sound right, period.

Think about it.

It takes time for the peak to build up, it is not in in original waveform.

You notch 12dB out to the point where it measures flat over time, now your initial waveform has totally lost that 12dB, and it sounds anemic.

I have at times partially notched out peaks with some degree of sucess, but it is at best a band-aid and not a cure.
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Old 13th October 2013, 12:40 PM   #9
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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I understand what you are saying. First, I am looking to address two issues that are common in most situations; the room mode and the box eq. Electronic filtering IS a band-aid not a cure. I agree. A cure would to build a wonderful listening room with massive bass traps, locate monstrous flat subs right at each front speaker and so on. I have done this elsewhere. That is not an option in a 11 x 13 foot guest room. It was hard enough embedding the sub cabinet in the wall equal-distant from the front left and right which corrected several crossover region issues. We are talking band aids. You also need to remember this is not a "general" solution but a sub issue where the offending node is barely below the crossover, so the mains are still producing considerable energy in this region. A 12 dB cut to the sub is not a 12 dB cut to the system.

I also need to tweak the subs LF roll off as the room gain does not quite pull up the bottom end enough. It is a feeble little 10 inch Dayton RS in a sealed .6Q cabinet. Here eq works just fine as it is to correct the actual reproducer. As I said, even the plate amps with eq (my O-Audio does not) don't match the real in-room requirements very well.

I can HEAR the node problem, and when I use even the old 1/3 octave eq, bringing it down makes a major improvement in the sound. It reduces the "boomieness" allowing for a more equal deep bass. Untreated, it sounds lie a cheap car stereo mono-note sub you hear from three blocks away. Also remember, a narrow dip in response is far less noticeable than a peak. A higher Q filter would be better than the graphic eq. The Ross is not a constant Q so a 6 to 10 dB cut is pretty wide band.

I suspect real parametric eq is not common as it is too hard for people to understand or use. An idea would be a graphic eq with high q in cut and low Q in boost. Add in a really steep HP at 24 or so.
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Old 13th October 2013, 03:32 PM   #10
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tvrgeek ... I have to wonder if several small subs would even your room out better/more completely than a "eq" solution might. I notice that you stated the difficulty in the placement of the single unit you have now ... is flying a couple compact subs @room corners an option?
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