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Old 17th November 2009, 09:10 PM   #11
form109 is offline form109  United States
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Originally Posted by TerryO View Post
This my question in this thread:

Has anyone tried a scanspeak 9700 and 18W8546 MW in a 2.5 or 3-way system? It's quite expensive and i was wondering what quality it was - will be able to live up to a apexjr super 8 inch sub?

I hope the formulation of the question is suggestive.

Best Regards,
TerryO

i think you should try a Few,there A real good value for the Price,but remember they are 4 Ohms.
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Old 17th November 2009, 10:07 PM   #12
TerryO is offline TerryO  United States
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Originally Posted by form109 View Post
i think you should try a Few,there A real good value for the Price,but remember they are 4 Ohms.
I didn't realize that the Scan Speaks were 4 ohm drivers.

I have heard the Apexjr 8 inchers and I think they're the real deal.
I use Shiva 12 inchers myself. I might add that I had a bit of input in the design of the original Shiva, and also built the first down-firing subwoofer using Shiva #1. I did, however, use an Apexjr Subwoofer amp with it.

Best Regards,
TerryO
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Old 17th November 2009, 11:54 PM   #13
form109 is offline form109  United States
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Originally Posted by TerryO View Post
I didn't realize that the Scan Speaks were 4 ohm drivers.

I have heard the Apexjr 8 inchers and I think they're the real deal.
I use Shiva 12 inchers myself. I might add that I had a bit of input in the design of the original Shiva, and also built the first down-firing subwoofer using Shiva #1. I did, however, use an Apexjr Subwoofer amp with it.

Best Regards,
TerryO
i ment the Apex Super 8 was 4 Ohms.
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Old 18th November 2009, 05:08 AM   #14
Shaun is offline Shaun  South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kongen View Post
Has anyone tried the apexjr super 8 inch sub? It's quite cheap and i was wondering what quality it was - will be able to live up to a scanspeak 9700 and 18W8546 MW in a 2.5 or 3-way system? Perhaps running 2 or 4 each side...
A point of concern for me would be the sensitivity of the Super8. IIRC, it is in the order of 84dB. Also, there are no published measurements of distortion and excursion linearity for the Super8, as opposed to the Scanspeak drivers that are reputed to be of premium quality. The Super8 is undoubtedly very good value; cheap enough to buy and try without blinking. But how well it would integrate with the Scans is hard to quantify.

Nevertheless, I would take note of TerryO's recommendation, particularly given the context he describes. The Shiva is a legend.
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Old 18th November 2009, 04:56 PM   #15
TerryO is offline TerryO  United States
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Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
A point of concern for me would be the sensitivity of the Super8. IIRC, it is in the order of 84dB. Also, there are no published measurements of distortion and excursion linearity for the Super8, as opposed to the Scanspeak drivers that are reputed to be of premium quality. The Super8 is undoubtedly very good value; cheap enough to buy and try without blinking. But how well it would integrate with the Scans is hard to quantify.

Nevertheless, I would take note of TerryO's recommendation, particularly given the context he describes. The Shiva is a legend.
Yes, the Shiva is legendary and for good reason. It was, in it's original incarnation, extremely good and has been continuously upgraded over the years. Kevin Haskins of Exodus Audio has been responsible for the last two upgrade cycles of the Shiva and it's better than ever. I'm not sure if many are aware that the Shiva is still available.

Shaun was, I believe, a major contributing member of the old Bass List at the time of the origination of the Shiva as the "Official Bass List Subwoofer".
For those that are new or aren't aware, the Bass List was a forum that, IMHO, had the tightest concentration of talented members of any audio forum that has ever existed. Many of Audio's major heavyweights were members, including Magnus Idland (sp?) the ScanSpeak designer. With the exception of myself, they didn't suffer fools easily and could really come down on anyone making outlandish or unsupported claims. Political Correctness or sensitivity to one's self esteam, was not a feature of the group, but the members would give a great deal of help to anyone that was polite and seemed interested in learning.

The other feature (and one that I perhaps miss the most) of the "List" was the crazy humor that would break out from time to time when things slowed down.
What a truly great bunch of guys they were!

Best Regards,
TerryO
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Old 18th November 2009, 05:11 PM   #16
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member of the old Bass List at the time of the origination of the Shiva as the "Official Bass List Subwoofer".
I went thru 8 of those (and still have the AV3 i picked up at the same time. It gave me an opportunity to visit Adire (Avatar at the time?), pick them up, and meet the crew.

dave
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Old 18th November 2009, 06:52 PM   #17
TerryO is offline TerryO  United States
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
I went thru 8 of those (and still have the AV3 i picked up at the same time. It gave me an opportunity to visit Adire (Avatar at the time?), pick them up, and meet the crew.

dave
I first "met" Dave on the Bass List, although it was a few years later before I actually had a face to face meeting with him at Al Wooley's RAW Fest in Canada.
Dave was, and still is, one of the inspired individuals that made the List such a great source.

Best Regards,
TerryO.
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Old 19th November 2009, 12:20 AM   #18
form109 is offline form109  United States
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Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
A point of concern for me would be the sensitivity of the Super8. IIRC, it is in the order of 84dB. Also, there are no published measurements of distortion and excursion linearity for the Super8, as opposed to the Scanspeak drivers that are reputed to be of premium quality. The Super8 is undoubtedly very good value; cheap enough to buy and try without blinking. But how well it would integrate with the Scans is hard to quantify.

Nevertheless, I would take note of TerryO's recommendation, particularly given the context he describes. The Shiva is a legend.
ive never put neither of my Super 8's in a Self Designed Box,but i did modify the Sub Enclosure from a Small HTIB System,the Box Originally Held a 5.5" Woofer (Enclosure Demensions were 6.5" Wide,12.6" Deep,10.2")...if someone could please figure or estimate the Volume of that Enclosure.

the super 8 fit in by cutting a larger hole,either way the enclosure was still probably too small...good for experimentation but not optimum..the original Port was 2" x 3"...Tuning somewhere around 60 hz..i extended the port by sticking a 10" Pipe in the Original Port...Tuning went down to around 32 Hz,the results were good running as a temporary sub in the Largest room of the house,The Den...even in a Less than Optimum enclosure,the in room response was pretty much flat down to 20 Hz...(imagine how good it would have been in a Proper Enclosure)..Amp was a Cerwin Vega from Apex Jr (150 watt).

the Apex Jr produced no Audible Distortion,Even when pushed hard...as expected however it flops around in Free Air.

it has a Suprisingly Wide Range for a Sub Driver,though the midrange isnt all that clean (as Expected)....the Bass extension is good though.

not sure if the 4.9 Xmax is correct.

the motor structure isnt too Complicated..the Pole Piece Extends about 1" over the Gap,the Top Plate is Fairly Thick,as well as the bottom Plate...the magnet is Heavy!...56 Ounces of Ceramic...i expect no distortion when use within its Limits and range.
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Old 20th November 2009, 01:35 AM   #19
TerryO is offline TerryO  United States
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Originally Posted by form109 View Post
ive never put neither of my Super 8's in a Self Designed Box,but i did modify the Sub Enclosure from a Small HTIB System,the Box Originally Held a 5.5" Woofer (Enclosure Demensions were 6.5" Wide,12.6" Deep,10.2")...if someone could please figure or estimate the Volume of that Enclosure.

the super 8 fit in by cutting a larger hole,either way the enclosure was still probably too small...good for experimentation but not optimum..the original Port was 2" x 3"...Tuning somewhere around 60 hz..i extended the port by sticking a 10" Pipe in the Original Port...Tuning went down to around 32 Hz,the results were good running as a temporary sub in the Largest room of the house,The Den...even in a Less than Optimum enclosure,the in room response was pretty much flat down to 20 Hz...(imagine how good it would have been in a Proper Enclosure)..Amp was a Cerwin Vega from Apex Jr (150 watt).

the Apex Jr produced no Audible Distortion,Even when pushed hard...as expected however it flops around in Free Air.

it has a Suprisingly Wide Range for a Sub Driver,though the midrange isnt all that clean (as Expected)....the Bass extension is good though.

not sure if the 4.9 Xmax is correct.

the motor structure isnt too Complicated..the Pole Piece Extends about 1" over the Gap,the Top Plate is Fairly Thick,as well as the bottom Plate...the magnet is Heavy!...56 Ounces of Ceramic...i expect no distortion when use within its Limits and range.
I want to apologize for going so far off topic. Yes, the Apex Super 8 is a very good driver at an excellent price. There is a trick that may be of some utility and that is using the Super 8's in a "distributed bass" setup. With the low cost of the driver it's not only feasible, but may actually be preferable to other methods. I know nothing of your room, but most rooms that I've ever seen have room modes (eigenmodes) that can be detrimental to the sound. Basically, you may be seated in an area were the bass exhibits a negative pressure and in another position it's positive pressure zone. Moving the sub around can change this, at least where it occurs relative to your listening position.

With the Super 8 you could buy a total of, say, four of them and power them with two subamps. Wiring a pair (in separate cabinets) in series, and using a single amp you would end up with two pairs of subwoofers that then would be placed in different position within the room to offset big modes and you gain a more complete, smooth and even bass presentation.
The other advantages of this "Distributed Bass" scheme would be more output without stressing the individual driver and being in series, the amp is driving a higher impedance load (too low and amps can burn out) and you haven't spent a great deal of money for what you've achieved.

For the cabinets, download WinISD (it's freeware!) and use the T/S parameters to correctly design your cabinet. Personally I'd use a sealed cabinet. Room gain (the car guys use the term: cabin gain) will probably give you the bass extension that you need to have low, hard-hitting and robust bass. Great Slam Factor!

This is just a suggestion as to one solution that might work well for you.

Best Regards,
TerryO
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Old 20th November 2009, 02:10 AM   #20
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I bought one and built it into one of the recommended vented cabinets. I was quite pleased with it. I gave it to my nephew as a graduation gift with a mini Aleph and some book shelf speakers. He says they are a party pleasing neighbor ******* great combo.

PS. Steve is a great person to deal with, I highly recommend him and his company.

Bill
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