Need Help: High Q, High Sensitivity Sub?

[ad70]

I'm looking for a Sub:

1) High Q's - As needed for IB, if I've done my homework right??

2) High sensitivity

3) 10" or smaller, no more than $100 each

Any suggestions please?


I saw this article, and thought that I would attempt my own version of it. I'm 60% there already in terms of equipment, but I'm looking for a suggestion for a pair of subs to fill the spot.

 

[OscarS]

you can scratch #2 out if you want high-Q and 10" or smaller. By the time you find a high-Q driver with a low enough Fs in a 10" size, you will be very disappointed that all will be <85 dB/1w/1m sensitive. There is no magic pixie dust to overcome science. It is all about compromise. This is because basic loudspeaker knowledge says that sensitivity is tied in to the Q of the system (lower usually means higher sens), and Sd (more is better for sensitivity). You're going the complete other direction.

 

[ad70]

I should have included this link of a project. I just thought it was interesting that the guy used subwoofers instead of a full range speaker of component midbass or woofer.


Open Baffle Speaker Design - Room Friendly Dipoles

 

[OscarS]

Hate to say I told you so. That Alpine subwoofer used in that project has a mid-band sensitivity of 84 dB/1W/1m. If you want any higher, say in the low 90's, you have to sacrifice bass response due to either lower Mms (raising Fs), or lower Qes (that will dampen the output at resonance).

 

[ad70]

Cheers OscarS. Still trying to get to grips with T/S Parameters as a whole instead of lookinmg at one or two factors! So if I was scrap my initial idea and just look for a good sub suitable for a design like this, what would you suggest I look for?

From my research a sub suitable for IB should have a QTS of .5 or higher. I've only worked with low Q subs before. The only really high Q gear that I've ever come across were the Alpine SXE, SPS, SPG and SPR speakers that I've had in car audio. The QTS for the SPR and SPG were .8 and above (T/S parameters given to me by Alpine). For fun I tried them in a (approx) .25 enclosure and the results were dreadful especially for bass. Alpine told me the SPG and SPR's needed an enclosure of 4 cubit feet or more.

I've just started about with the open baffle approach at the moment, but I really like the results. I thought the idea of running a sub as a type of midbass is an interesting approach.

 

[Inductor]

10" needed for IB

I should have included this link of a project. I just thought it was interesting that the guy used subwoofers instead of a full range speaker of component midbass or woofer.


Open Baffle Speaker Design - Room Friendly Dipoles

ad70,
Bjorno (diyAudio) is signing the link of measurement data.
Making a list might help for you. Some are just references or where discontinued others are available or you might find as vintage.

Audax HT240G0
HIFI-ALTERNATIVE.COM Audax HT240G0 10" Coated Paper Woofer

Focal - 27F, Focal 10V1, Focal 270-V3
Subwoofer Focal 27 V2, high end Car Audio bass box
Focal 270 V3 car audio speakers

Eminence Alpha-10A, 10
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Alpha_10A.pdf
Eminence Alpha-10A 10" Guitar/PA Driver 290-403
Eminence Alpha 10 47.05 IN STOCK (14 Jul 2013)
Eminence Alpha 10 Twin Pack 92.92
Eminence Alpha 10 Four Pack 183.52

Dynaudio MW 190
http://www.gattiweb.com/images/dynaudio/MW190.pdf
Amazon.com: MW190 - Dynaudio 12" Subwoofer: Car Electronics

Eminence Basslite CA 2010
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/basslite-ca2010.pdf
EBLCA2010A Eminence Basslite CA 2010 - 10" Speaker 150 W 8 Ohm

Ciare CS250
http://www.ciare.com/pdf/catalogo/CS250.PDF

Eminence Beta 10
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Beta_10A.pdf
EB10CXA Eminence Beta - 10" Speaker 150 W 8 Ohm
Eminence Beta 10 52.86 IN STOCK (14 Jul 2013)
Eminence Beta 10 52.78
PACKS 2x, 4X

Dayton Audio PA255-8
Dayton Audio PA255-8 10" Pro Woofer
Dayton Audio PA255-8 10" Pro Woofer 295-030
Amazon.com: Dayton Audio PA255-8 10" Pro Woofer: Car Electronics

Peavey Sheffield TVX 1035 4
Peavey :: Sheffield TVX 1035-4
EBAY - Peavey Sheffield TVX 1035-4 10" Bass guitar Speaker

Focal 10W6411
http://www.audioalchemy.ro/difuzoare/focal/10W6411.pdf

Oberton 10B100
Home
Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components

Monacor SPA-10PA
SPA-10PA
SPA-110PA - Monacor high-performance PA speakers 10 inch - Europe Audio

Dayton Audio SD270-88
http://www.daytonaudio.com/media/support/SD270-88_specsheet.pdf
Dayton Audio SD270-88 10" Shielded DVC Subwoofer 295-485
SD270A-88 - Dayton 10 inch DVC Shielded Series Subwoofer - Europe Audio

Sica PL10B25S
PL10B25S | Sica Loudspeakers

 

[OscarS]

Simple. Just move up one size. A 12" has ~500cm² compared to ~320cm² of a 10" (approx) of radiating surface area. This way, the high Qts and low Fs won't hamper the sensitivity too much because the Sd makes up for some of it.

 

[bjorno]

I'm looking for a Sub:..Any suggestions please?...

Hi ad70,

IMO: A T-TQWT would work great with a Main OB setup and if XO'd low one sub should be quite adequate.

Fane :: Fane Sovereign 12-500LF 12" 64.19 IN STOCK (14 Jul 2013)

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/168783-peerless-830987-3-full-range-dipole.html

b

 

[Inductor]

Hi bjorno,
(As always I will be reading your link graphs for days) Can you be kind enough to explain in plain text...

So now we have 3 drivers.
1. Peerless 830987 3"
2. Fane Sovereign 12-500LF 12"
3. Alpine SWS 1023D

What's the relation of the last 2 drivers. I understand the Alpine is a sub, and the FANE goes on the T-TQWT. If I'm correct, you mean that the sub can be used /or not to the customer desire. The T-TQWT shows F3~30Hz for the FANE, correct? How does the FANE - what system, enclosure or OB it's working with it - in the last green graph you presented (F3~60Hz)? I assume it's OB from it's F3? Regards.

 

[ad70]

Thanks for your help so far. The FS on some of those drivers seem really high. For this type of project or for getting low bass in an open baffle design, is that something I need to be concerned about?

What would be the effects of a low Q low FS sub in an open baffle?

 

[Inductor]

(I'm not really interested in the OB territory, for now!)
Here are some links.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/110583-fast-fun-inexpensive-ob-project.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/209775-what-best-ob-dipole-diy-desgins-1k.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/233045-ae-speakers-dipole-15-lo15-need-advice.html

 

[OscarS]

Hi bjorno,
(As always I will be reading your link graphs for days) Can you be kind enough to explain in plain text...

So now we have 3 drivers.
1. Peerless 830987 3"
2. Fane Sovereign 12-500LF 12"
3. Alpine SWS 1023D

What's the relation of the last 2 drivers. I understand the Alpine is a sub, and the FANE goes on the T-TQWT. If I'm correct, you mean that the sub can be used /or not to the customer desire. The T-TQWT shows F3~30Hz for the FANE, correct? How does the FANE - what system, enclosure or OB it's working with it - in the last green graph you presented (F3~60Hz)? I assume it's OB from it's F3? Regards.

It is indeed the Fane in the T-TQWT. It is the one working the "subwoofer" duty, while the smaller Alpine takes care of higher bass frequencies, and the full range does the rest.

 

[Inductor]

Very well. Regards.

 

[GM]

For this type of project or for getting low bass in an open baffle design, is that something I need to be concerned about?

What would be the effects of a low Q low FS sub in an open baffle?

You want Fs to be as low as you want to go.

No bass without mass quantities of EQ, which means the driver must be able to handle it [high Xmax, RMS watts].

GM