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Old 7th July 2013, 11:13 AM   #1
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ßart West-VL.'s Avatar
 
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Location: West Vlaanderen
Default 18" in horn for HT

My current sub is a BR and I was wondering if the Monacor SPH-450TC can be used at a lower frequency then in a BR?
(Pivoting TV-stand/HT-sub/stealth corner)
This is a good opportunity for me to learn HornResp, I would like to learn to design horns.
Can someone jump-start me in HornResp with this driver?

I have about 600 litre net to spend, maximum outside dimensions are:

Initial dimensions were wrong!
height 2m 38cm
width 81cm
depth 33cm

These are correct:
height 2m 45cm - 8.038 ft
width 86cm - 2.822 ft
depth 38cm - 1.247 ft


i don't even know what kind of horn is to be simulated, I'm a novice.

Thanks.


[Driver]
Brand=Monacor
Model=SPH-450TC
Manufacturer=Monacor
ProvidedBy=Bart
DateAdded=20121010
DateModified=20121010
Qts=0,25
Znom=8
Fs=20
Pe=1000
SPL=93
Re=7,4
Le=0,0046
fLe=0
KLe=0
BL=32,4
Xmax=0,0129
Cms=0,00022
Qms=2,97
Qes=0,27
Rms=12,7
Mms=0,305
Sd=0,125
Vas=0,48
Dia=0
Vd=0,0016125
no=0,0137
Dd=0
EBP=0
numVC=1
Hc=0
Hg=0
SPLmax=0
SPLmaxLF=0
USPL=0
alfaVC=0
Rt=0
____________________________________

Impedanz (Z)
2x4 Ω
Resonanzfrequenz (fs)
20 Hz
Max. Frequenzbereich
f3-1500 Hz
Empf. Trennfreq. (fmax.)
400 Hz
Maximale Belastbarkeit
2x500 WMAX
Nennbelastbarkeit (P)
2x350vWRMS
Mittl. Schalldr. (1 W/1 m)
93 dB
Nachgiebigkeit (Cms)
0,22 mm/N
Bewegte Masse (Mms)
305 g
Mech. Widerstand (Rms)
12,7 kg/s
Mechanische Güte (Qms)
2,97
Elektrische Güte (Qes)
0,27
Gesamtgüte (Qts)
0,25
Äquivalentvolumen (Vas)
480 l
Gleichstromwiderst. (Re)
2x3,7 Ω/1x7,4 Ω
Schwingspulenindukt. (Le)
2x1,1 mH/1x4,6 mH
Schwingspulendurchmesser
99,3 mm
Schwingspulenträger
Alu
Schwingspulenwick.-Höhe
37,8 mm
Luftspalthöhe
12 mm
Lineare Auslenkung (XMAX)
±12,9 mm
Eff. Membranfläche (Sd)
1250 cm2
Verschiebevolumen (Vd)
1612,5 cm3
Kraftfaktor (BxL)
32,4 Tm
Referenz-Wirkungsgrad (No)
1,37 %
Magnetdurchmesser
220 mm
Magnetgewicht
5,7 kg
Einbauöffnung
Ø 425 mm
Einbautiefe
220 mm
Abmessungen
Ø 460 mm
Gewicht
17 kg
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Last edited by ßart West-VL.; 11th July 2013 at 04:06 PM. Reason: Wrong dimensions.
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Old 7th July 2013, 04:15 PM   #2
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Hi ßart West-VL.,

This is a tapped horn from my Hornresp "archive", maybe that'll get you started:

Regards,
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File Type: jpg 2013_Jul07_Monacor_SPH_450TC_TH_Input.jpg (37.2 KB, 309 views)
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Old 8th July 2013, 07:06 AM   #3
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Thanks Oliver,

I have slightly different parameters. Where did you get your parameters?
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File Type: jpg HornsubParameters.jpg (69.1 KB, 282 views)
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Old 8th July 2013, 07:40 AM   #4
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I'm lost in the segment numbers, don't really get the feel or visualisation of them.
Where can I find a guick start guide for HornResp?
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File Type: jpg HornsubAttempt1-a.jpg (127.1 KB, 277 views)
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Old 9th July 2013, 12:11 AM   #5
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Default Hornresp Tutorials

Hi Bart,

I don't know if there is a tutorial that addresses the new Wizards, but these two are good:

By lilmike:

Simple Tapped Horn Tutorial using Hornresp

By soho54:

Hornresp for Dum... hmm... Everyone - Page 2 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

I think my T/S parameters were partially from the manufacturers data sheet, and partially recalculated by Hornresp.

Regards,
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Old 9th July 2013, 04:49 AM   #6
epa is offline epa  Netherlands
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also the help file of hr .
ik volg je bart
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Old 9th July 2013, 06:06 AM   #7
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Thanks Oliver and epa, I'll read read!

Hey epa, I was wondering when you would chime in, lol
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Old 9th July 2013, 02:34 PM   #8
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Hi Bart,

You are calling this: "18" in horn for HT". I went on the assumption, that a front loaded horn would just be way too big ("...lower frequency...HT...), and that a tapped horn would be about the maximum size/output compromise. While learing Hornresp you may also want to try the other 1/4 wave resonators and transmission lines that have been popularized on this forum by bjorno, the tapped versions (QWP and T-TQWT), as well as the offset driver enclosures (OD-MLTL and OD-TTL). I'm sure you'll find other names and examples using "search". :-) They will get you lower in a reduced volume with improved group delay.

Regards,
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Old 9th July 2013, 03:23 PM   #9
GM is offline GM  United States
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FYI, a driver’s cab loading BW is defined by Flm = Fs*Qts/2 and Fhm = 2*Fs/Qts, though for Prof. Leach’s horn design routine, use Qes and of course it’s best to use measured specs.

With the understanding that the further below the driver’s upper mass corner [Fhm] the desired gain BW extends the less peak power handling is available; this driver’s low Fs, Qts means a very wide usable horn loading BW, so with its fairly high power handling capability, horn loading to below Fs is viable, though its high Vas means a relatively large cab.

GM
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Old 9th July 2013, 09:21 PM   #10
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What does BW stand for?
Flm= 20*0.25/2= 2.5
Fhm= 160

I tried to measure T&S parameters but ATB-PC Pro doesn't measure below 12hz, so it couldn't determine the lower impedance peak or something like that.
Even if it did work suddenly, then it would be even worse with the added mass.
I gave REW a go but didn't figure out enough to use it properly...
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