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Old 26th August 2013, 07:27 PM   #21
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Hi Prashanthb,
Don't take this personally. I am not criticizing your view point.
I am only focusing your attention that these drivers are built for a specific purpose. The cone manufacture who produces these stiff surround/cones also make soft surround/cones of similar cone bodies in all possible stiffness/weight/shape & profiles.
The end driver manufacturer has a freedom to choose what ever is required for.
It's not that soft complaint surround/cones are not of versatile use.
They are well established in there own work place.
All depends on the application, where these stiff one goes to these extreme end car subwoofers.
Softer one's considered for hi-fi use at home and studio's.
Softer ones will rip apart is subjected to the workload for extreme car audio.
Discussing on cone travel / cone & surround material etc. is another point of discussion, will not be correct here to discuss in this thread for now.
I only intend to clarify my point on the stiff surround drivers which according to you is worthless and bad speaker.
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Old 26th August 2013, 08:28 PM   #22
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the car sub issue is very easily solved

topic

stiff suspension or loose suspension for the home subwoofers?
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Old 27th August 2013, 07:40 AM   #23
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I am very sorry if I sounded harsh Mr. Sidewinder18x. I absolutely did not intend that. Probably my mind suspension was stiff yesterday night.With due respect to all categories of music I state that stiff drivers are bad designs.

1)Stiffness higher than required will modify the sound reproduced.

2)High stiffness in fact reduces the low frequency SPL potential of that driver. So you have to use more power to get same SPLs, which is unnecessary waste.

3)If appropriate modern materials are used, then you can make a driver with the near correct damping and spring rate and still not tear apart at high SPLs. These can be used anywhere, car or home.

Please do tell me your views in support of the stiff suspension.

Last edited by Prashanthb; 27th August 2013 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 27th August 2013, 02:38 PM   #24
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hmm ... well, if your demand is 20-30mm Xmax the surround will need to be quite big, and thus also sturdy, or the cone will wobble like a drunk sailor (and distort)
and the cone will likewise have to be very strong, and thus also heavy, and again ... bla bla, and so on

Xmax seem to be the end killer
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Old 27th August 2013, 04:28 PM   #25
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Yes it is a difficult challenge but there is a work around for that. Use multiple drivers. So (Xmax/no. of drivers) will be 'manageable Xmax'. But this will increase the cost of the system but cost is no object in our discussion here. There is another work around. Just listen at sane SPL levels(like me).

And tinitus, modern materials do allow you to be light and sturdy at the same time and at not so expensive prices.

Again I state this, there is nothing like loose or stiff suspension. There is only one suspension. That is a "correct suspension" for a given moving mass in grams. If by mistake it is loose, you can increase stiffness by using appropriate enclosures. But if it is stiff, I dont know of any method by which you can decrease stiffness. So that driver has to be let go!

I would like to know if the 3 points I mentioned above are right or wrong.
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Old 27th August 2013, 05:12 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prashanthb View Post

And tinitus, modern materials do allow you to be light and sturdy at the same time and at not so expensive prices.
yeah, very thick poly and not so new at all

plastic bucket cone, and rubber boot surround, will last forever
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Old 27th August 2013, 06:12 PM   #27
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LOL!
Eg: Peerless fabrikerne,Woofer-M13KH(kevlar)=1,500 INR (retail).
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Old 27th August 2013, 06:15 PM   #28
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With a sealed cabinet, you can benefit by using a looser suspension. If the cabinet is opened back (like most guitar amps) or vented, a tighter suspension may be wiser. If the woofer is going to be pushed real hard (lots of watts), tighter suspension is wiser. Room acoustics and where the woofer is located within that room will have a very large effect on the overall sound, independent of everything else.
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Old 27th August 2013, 07:31 PM   #29
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@Bob: I would put it this way. Sealed or vented or open,a "sound making device"(includes enclosure), must have the correct suspension to get accurate sound. Now, if you are afraid of damaging your drivers, then use other methods to get high SPLs but whatever it is; suspension rate cannot be changed. It is tied to the moving mass. You can go ahead and change it, but at the cost of sound quality. To keep the discussion simple lets ignore room acoustics for now, or just imagine you are testing the speaker in a well damped listening room.

"If the woofer is going to be pushed real hard (lots of watts), tighter suspension is wiser."

Would it be incorrect if I say......

If the woofer is going to be pushed real hard (lots of watts), the same suspension rate but stronger material is wiser.
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Old 27th August 2013, 08:24 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmsandy View Post
I would like to select the subwoofer suspension where I see the subwoofers with loose suspension will sound more layered and also goes deep enough but not tighter and with the tighter suspension it feels that the bass is hanging sometimes or over damping...

which one is generally good for subwoofers? provided for very good sound quality...
I would suggest to try a woofer type like the ones made by SB Acoustics

not really subwoofers as such, but more like woofers with low Fs and good Xmax

and Mivoc have designed new 12" with adjustable Fs
I don't know, but might be more 'sub oriented'
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