stiff suspension or loose suspension for the home subwoofers? - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 23rd August 2013, 10:22 PM   #11
Zero D is offline Zero D  United Kingdom
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@ tinitus

If you mean Cms ? then lots of manufactures quote this these days. I doubt if the OP was thinking of getting so technical though ? Rather, wanting a general answer to his question

It doesn't do any harm to illuminate etc the subject though
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Old 23rd August 2013, 10:40 PM   #12
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero D View Post
If you mean Cms ? then lots of manufactures quote this these days.
gosh, you are right, they actually do

I have been lazy for too long, and not looking for it

but then, again, I still think the best way is to compare Fs and mms
it makes little sense to only look at one parameter
change one, and other changes too

and what others have said too
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Old 24th August 2013, 02:45 AM   #13
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I honestly feel that the room and positioning of the sub along with treatment and signal processing will have more of an effect on the sound of the subwoofer than the suspension will.
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Old 24th August 2013, 06:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prashanthb View Post
Loose suspension is better as it allows signal reproduction more faithfully than a stiff one which tries to modify the signal by applying its own back force when cone returns(too much damping). But if too loose the voice coil will not stay in its correct place.

Looking and correcting one aspect at a time makes the system work well as a whole.
Suspension of a driver is not always determined by surround stiffness. The spider also adds up a critical role in the overall compliance of a driver. In some design approach the surround is loose but spider is super stiff, some have stiffer & hard surround but super soft and high compliant spider. And some have best of the both worlds. Ever design aspect revolves around the material science or the soft parts used, which governs the factors such as the required excursion in respect to the attainable frequency range or how low the driver is designed to go. All these depends on the physical & it's geometrical design of the surround/spider and as well as the cone mass, material and geometrical shape.
All this goes side by side with close relation to the motor structure design in contrast to the gap height, motor strength while maintaining voice coil linearity. Ensuring flatter impedance & lower distortion.
This discussion can go on & on endlessly. But I would limit it here for the sake of sticking to the related topic discussion of this particular thread "stiff suspension or loose suspension" .
All I mean to say we cannot judge a driver on its suspension stiffness. There are various other factors also to be looked upon while choosing any driver for any particular application.
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Old 24th August 2013, 04:19 PM   #15
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Great that this discussion has started. Because I find some drivers in my local market which are so stiff that I have to press all my 5 fingers hard to move the cone. In my book that is a very bad driver. I recently listened to the Dayton RS150 6 inch woofer which is very freely moving and it sounded so detailed(layered sound means that). Of course there are other parameters but I feel the cone must be as light and rigid and free moving as possible.

Last edited by Prashanthb; 24th August 2013 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 24th August 2013, 04:33 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prashanthb View Post
Great that this discussion has started. Because I find some drivers in my local market which are so stiff that I have to press all my 5 fingers hard to move the cone. In my book that is a very bad driver. I recently listened to the Dayton RS150 6 inch woofer which is very freely moving and it sounded so detailed(layered sound means that). Of course there are other parameters but I feel the cone must be as light and rigid and free moving as possible.
I think that the driver which you had encountered in your local market was for auto sound. Free-air car subwoofer are like that.
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Old 26th August 2013, 12:28 AM   #17
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Those super stiff car subs assume big power will be applied, as in megawatts.
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Old 26th August 2013, 11:39 AM   #18
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Yes, you have to apply more power to over come the stiffness and reproduce the recorded waveform faithfully. Otherwise the stiffness will start dictating/influencing the reproduced waveform. And that is very very very bad.

@sidewinder18x: Car or home the goal is the same. Faithful waveform reproduction, as similar as possible to the waveform in the recording.

Last edited by Prashanthb; 26th August 2013 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 26th August 2013, 04:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prashanthb View Post
Yes, you have to apply more power to over come the stiffness and reproduce the recorded waveform faithfully. Otherwise the stiffness will start dictating/influencing the reproduced waveform. And that is very very very bad.

@sidewinder18x: Car or home the goal is the same. Faithful waveform reproduction, as similar as possible to the waveform in the recording.
Absolutely incorrect !. Car audio is categorized in two different class .... regular or conventional auto sound & "Extreme" Car audio , which is not popular in India due to complexity, budgetary, and lack of enthusiastic in this field. In the world of Extreme auto sound, all barriers of limitations are crossed. The use of ultra hi-power amps, feeding power hungry sub-woofers in sizes of 18, 15, 12 inches, often in pairs and sometimes in clusters of 4,6,8,10 12 or more in the entire boot space or some times the entire back space. Powered by multiple super gel battery's, hi-capacity reservoir capacitors banks, bus bar power lines & ht power cables , contractor power switchers.
Innovative, custom box designs and arragements are at the lime-lite.
Here faithful reproduction of original recording content is not the primary goal. Here flexing muscular power of extreme low end sound pressure levels and reproducing bone shattering sub sonic sound energy is the main criteria. "It's the heavy metal of auto-sound engineering". Competitions and innovations are at exhibits, pulling thousand of audio fanatics to these occasions held abroad.
These "stiff surround - low-efficiency" drivers are designed like that for all these applications. If you had seen them in your local market, then they were at the wrong place at the wrong time by mistake.
If you want a discussion why are these designed stiff , low-efficiency and power hungry that will be next.
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Old 26th August 2013, 06:56 PM   #20
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Well Mr.Sidewinder18x, I am not wrong!
Isnt it stupidity if you use a stiff driver when you should be using a high efficiency driver 'intelligently' to do the same amount of work(achieve same SPL)? Why waste energy?

If you want to prevent tearing apart of the cone at high SPLs then use materials intelligently which will give high excursions and still stay in one piece. And I dont know how making a suspension stiff will guarantee its structural integrity. The only thing achieved by stiff suspension is less cone excursion and hence less low frequencies. In other words the sub-woofers start becoming mid-range drivers.LOL.

And pray tell me how many of those cars carrying passengers to their offices every morning are also equipped for those dumb audio muscle power exhibitions? Be it Bangalore or kolkata or New York or London, I am sure they are in the minority. And when it is not popular in India why should so many drivers in the local market be so stiff? I wonder how many Mwatts of power are they wasting from our national grid! The only reason why such drivers exist in the local market is because they dont know how to make the suspension soft and still keep the voice coil in its place.

The main job of te suspension is to provide damping. And that damping should be the right amount. Not more, not less than what the moving mass dictates. If it is less then you have to use other means of damping like air tight sealed enclosures. But if it is more, I think it begins distorting the original wave form. And there is only one thing you can do with such drivers......Throw them away.

The Dayton RS150 was making more bass(and that too quality bass) than an equivalent stiff driver which was in the same cabinet earlier.

Last edited by Prashanthb; 26th August 2013 at 07:02 PM.
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