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Old 21st May 2013, 12:09 AM   #1
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Default First Build... Reccomendations for extreme low freq. drivers?

Hi everyone, I hope I have the right forum... I've been reading around for the last few months checking out different designs and things for speakers and while I have an idea what I want now, there's so many to choose from I dont know how to go about getting started. I will mostly be playing minimal techno, and from what i understand the best part of the experience is from the parts of the spectrum which we dont hear but really really feel. (~10hz?) I would be very open to putting a subbox into the mix but I really have no idea so I hope someone here can help. here's an example of what music i would like going on it... I think this pretty much explains what i'm going for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugdFJw3lAa4 my budget for this first one is about $500 (all in, it's my first one so i don't want to go tooo crazy on the credit card.) Boxes can be a good size. not couch size... but recliner size Low End!!! can you guys recommend me some drivers? thank you! *edit* topic got moved i think, just so everyone knows i'm looking to make a set of speakers for that $500, not just a sub.

Last edited by sansterre; 21st May 2013 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 21st May 2013, 01:03 AM   #2
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You and I both need some help. Let's wait it out at the camp fire while we wait for it.
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Old 21st May 2013, 02:10 AM   #3
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What do you mean by a set for $500, do you mean a pair for $250 each and with infra sound capable... and small? What, (do you mean) about 100L each?
So after all (the thread gets matured for more understanding of the project directions) the Econowave comes to mind but as PA/SPL type doesn't have anything of sub frequencies. How far off am I?
xsundown, your case might be different or r your requirements the same?!
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Old 21st May 2013, 02:49 AM   #4
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haha, thanks for the responses guys (we'll figure this out sundown.) i thought I was getting a feel for what needed to be done but now that it's time to buy parts i'm so over my head. a pair of 3way speakers for $250 each. 2x woofs,mids,tweeters. I would really love a deep low bass build, but would like to achieve this more with size and not ultra expensive drivers. the unit is for home and does not need to be super loud. cabinet size is relatively open. I don't have a good eye for liters yet, but the size of a 50 gallon drum seems pretty manageable to me. I would go bigger too if need be. I would like to keep each one smaller than a refridgerator. if you can point me in the direction of some drivers i would sure appreciate it. thanks again
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Old 21st May 2013, 03:59 AM   #5
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Oh no, sorry, don't mind me. I'm out.
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Old 21st May 2013, 07:37 AM   #6
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Hmmmmm...

Do you have any electronics to work with?

If it were me, I'd look for a pair of Mission 760i speakers as they're very cheap 2nd hand, but still sound very good. They do need bass support below ~90Hz though.
You'll need an amplifier for them.

If you have the amplifier already, those Missions would be my go-to, and then you can spend most of your budget on a decent subwoofer: 10Hz will take a lot of doing. I think you might need to look 2nd hand for that.

You could try going for 4x 12" long-throw car subwoofers, such as the JBL GTO1214, or there's a similar one by Infinity.

4x 12" drivers provide similar cone area to a pair of 18"ers, with ~12mm one-way travel.
Put them in a sealed box as big as you can, or maybe go for an EBS ported alignment, tuned for 10Hz - decide on a cabinet volume and see what you can get away with.

You're gonna need a couple of kilowatts for this.

Chris
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Old 21st May 2013, 07:12 PM   #7
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Hey Chris! thanks for the advice. I looked up the 760i's and while they are sexy looking I have to admit that i am more eager to build than I am to own... someone has recommended I try starting with the Econowave speakers, which from what i read seems like as good a place as any to begin. I'm not sure how that will affect which sub design to settle on, and I dont know enough about the science of it to say for sure that 10hz is what i'm going for, it's not written in stone... I'm mostly looking for that "underwater feeling" and figured lower is better. Is there much of a difference between car drivers and home audio? besides marketing and maybe durability? a couple Kilowatts meaning I should run them through a seperate amplifier? sorry for my noobishness. I have a small Dennon Amplifier here, RCD M37 (~65w), but it's nothing much. For the sake of making a decision how does (2 x 2 x 3.25 ) sound? approximate.
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Old 22nd May 2013, 11:20 AM   #8
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Okay, a really quick simulation with 4x JBL GTO1214s in a 360L enclosure tuned to 12Hz (assuming your dimensions are in feet) gives just over 110dB down to 10Hz, with 2000w input power.

Note this must be clean power, no clipping, and I hope your building is strong.

Tuned to 17Hz, you can get ~116dB to 15Hz.
For both of these, you need a 2nd order low pass at 20 and 30Hz respectively - this flattens the frequency response, which would otherwise droop down because the ports are tuned so low.

You'll definitely need a seperate amplifier for this, and you'll also need some kind of line-level crossover to split the subwoofer frequencies from everything else.

The Denon amplifier will be fine for powering your main speakers.

Car audio and home audio subwoofers can be interchangable. What matters here are T/S parameters, which give an idea of how the driver will perform in various enclosures. Some car subs are designed for one-note loudness in tiny boxes, which is fine for a car (the car's "room" gain adds a lot to the low end) but terrible for home use, as there isn't so much gain available.

The car subs I recommended above will do nicely for home use (I'm using a pair of JBL GTO1214s at the moment, they've half a kilowatt between them) and are widely available.


IMO, its worth building the biggest enclosure you can (2'x2'x3.25' is plenty), add 4x 12" drivers and play with port tuning and eq. I think you'll find something you like, and those drivers aren't all that expensive if you do cook them.

Chris
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Old 22nd May 2013, 11:19 PM   #9
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oh man. I can't say how blown away I am by how helpful you guys have been on here. Really so awesome to meet such a good community of people! Thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate it.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 01:54 AM   #10
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Parts express have Celestion 18"s on for $100 each, at 50% off. If you were in my position would you just go for those?
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