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-   -   Please help me choose HO-15, HF-12, Epic 12 (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/235812-please-help-me-choose-ho-15-hf-12-epic-12-a.html)

satx 11th May 2013 07:31 PM

Please help me choose HO-15, HF-12, Epic 12
 
Hi,
I've gone and started to get myself confused, so a little straightening out would be appreciated.

I would like to build a new subwoofer for music/sound quality first, with ht extension and slam as a secondary goal. My current sub is a Klipsch RSW-10d. It's just ok; I mostly leave it off during music because its just too slow and muddy. It's also just ok for movies, but not terrible. I've moved it about a hundred times and used different receivers and pre's so I don't think there's anymore to be had there.

My room is 22' x 14' x 9'.

I need to stay around $150-200 for the driver.
For the amp I am somewhat flexible. 300-500W plate amp probably. I even considered pilfering the 500 Bash from the Klipsch because it's digitally controlled.
The largest enclosure I can accommodate is 100L

Looking for an F3 around 25Hz or better, but as I said SQ is most important. I think I'd like to try a lower Q alignment this time, but I'm open to suggestions.

I've narrowed it down to three I think. The TC Epic 12" DVC, Dayton HF-12" and Dayton HO-15". Open to suggestions here, too.

I've modeled all of them in winisd and unibox, but I'm having a hard time understanding how these will translate to sound quality. I've used these before, but not for subwoofers.

I'm not sure how to post Winisd graphs here or I would. If someone would let me know that might be a big help.

So far what seems to look best for each driver is: TC Epic 12- BR 2.5ft^3, Dayton HO 15"- BR 2.9ft^3, Dayton HF 12" BR 3.2ft^3, Dayton HF 12" Sealed 3.2ft^3. Also, the Dayton Ultimax 12" doesn't look bad in about 3.2ft^3 sealed, but the Q is about .8.

Can someone please give me an opinion on these? Not necessarily have you heard them, just box size, tuning, watts and Q based on the driver parameters. The group delay and excursion to watts is really getting me all mixed up.

Sorry for such a long opening post.

Thanks,
Evan

GM 12th May 2013 05:35 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Greets!

FWIW, the first driver spec I look at for SQ is inductance [Le], so of the three only the 12HO qualifies for me assuming you mean the RSS315HF.

For an acoustically small, high SQ cab alignment, only sealed, ~aperiodic or other type of TL qualifies to get the desired Qt, but getting a 25 Hz F3 will probably need some form of EQ unless there’s significant room gain.

There’s programs that allow you to highlight/copy/save stuff on your screen and I’ve been told that saving them as gifs is best, then use the ‘manage attachments’ feature to add them to your post. Don’t know if there’s any freeware available anymore though, mine’s from 2000 and can’t find it in a quick search except as a much more elaborate program for a fee.

I guess some folks still just use the ‘print screen’ key to capture whole screen and use PAINT or similar to ‘erase’ what they don’t want.

GM

satx 12th May 2013 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GM (Post 3487664)
Greets!

FWIW, the first driver spec I look at for SQ is inductance [Le], so of the three only the 12HO qualifies for me assuming you mean the RSS315HF.


GM

Hey,

I was just about to ask a different, simpler question....so here I am.

The 15" Dayton I mentioned is the RSS390HO, the RSS315HF you mentioned wasn't on the list in the op. I did model it, but it needs huge enclosures.

So you are saying to look at Le to help decide if the driver's going to have good sound quality? Assuming everything else is up to par. What kind of number should I be looking for?

The question I was about to ask was if a driver has fairly high group delay (25ms) @ 20Hz, but excursion is low, is this ok or should I be trying to get the GD down as well. Of the drivers I mentioned, it seems to be either high excursion (still below xmax) with low group delay or vise versa. All modeled at 300 watts. HO 15" seems to handle a lot more power though.

Thanks,
Evan

norman bates 12th May 2013 08:02 AM

I'm still pushing everyone for the sealed F3=31hz, 5.5ft3 using the 15" rss390hf. 200watts and still in xmax, but 87db spl 1w/1m will require a bunch of power.

Norman

Scott L 12th May 2013 02:48 PM

HO 15
 
2 Attachment(s)
My choice was a pair of HO-15's. I realize a pair is a bit higher than your budget, but if you build your own enclosure(s) maybe (?)

It's actually quite the amazing driver, especially at it's price. My bass reflex gets down to the mid 20's easily. I measured the fs of my pair and they were a tad bit lower than factory spec @ 21hz.
I think sometimes the bass reflex gets a bad rap, but to me, they always sound more relxed than a sealed box.
Of course, I am always doing things waay out-of-the-mainstream.

satx 12th May 2013 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norman bates (Post 3487755)
I'm still pushing everyone for the sealed F3=31hz, 5.5ft3 using the 15" rss390hf. 200watts and still in xmax, but 87db spl 1w/1m will require a bunch of power.

Norman

Sure it sounds good, but the enclosure's way too big. I really don't have room for anything bigger, believe me I would if I could.

satx 12th May 2013 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott L (Post 3488154)
My choice was a pair of HO-15's. I realize a pair is a bit higher than your budget, but if you build your own enclosure(s) maybe (?)

It's actually quite the amazing driver, especially at it's price. My bass reflex gets down to the mid 20's easily. I measured the fs of my pair and they were a tad bit lower than factory spec @ 21hz.
I think sometimes the bass reflex gets a bad rap, but to me, they always sound more relxed than a sealed box.
Of course, I am always doing things waay out-of-the-mainstream.

The HO seems to be the best of the group for me, the TC-12 also. Models well in a reasonable box, high power handling. One thing that confuses me is that Parts express tells people in the Q&A that for sound quality they always recommend the HF over the HO.

I tend to agree about ported boxes; I think they get a bad rap. I like the smooth, deep, relaxed bass more than really punchy in the 40-60Hz range. As long as it integrates and not boomy. Also, I am looking for some extension because, while music is far and away the most important here, I do use it for movies and TV.

As for two, space is a concern. The only way I could do two would be a stereo pair of smaller sealed. The rooms big enough, but I designed it with everything audio video in one end. This was before I started getting serious about sound. Everything is wired in-wall on that end.

Question: I saw that O audio is going out of business and they have stock of 300W amps they're getting rid-of for cheap. Would this be enough for the TC sounds 12" or the Dayton HO-15? I don't listen at extreme levels.

Thanks
Evan

satx 13th May 2013 03:25 AM

Another option that is modeling pretty well is the RSS315HF-4 12" in 2.8ft^3 sealed. Q/6.4, f3/37Hz, f10/20Hz. Maybe it could be eq'd on the low end for a little more extension using the O-audio 300W amp? It seems like xmax is reached pretty easily at 300 watts though.

Could someone explain the effects of boosting the low end and power and excursion requirements, please? Does this driver not have sufficient xmax (14mm)?

Evan

satx 13th May 2013 04:34 AM

Is it okay to tune an enclosure below the driver's fs? Like say tuning a 3ft^3 box for the Dayton HO-15 to 18Hz. I'm asking because this driver in an enclosure that I can acomadate has the best roll-off with a lower tune.

Evan

satx 13th May 2013 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satx (Post 3488948)
Another option that is modeling pretty well is the RSS315HF-4 12" in 2.8ft^3 sealed. Q/6.4, f3/37Hz, f10/20Hz. Maybe it could be eq'd on the low end for a little more extension using the O-audio 300W amp? It seems like xmax is reached pretty easily at 300 watts though.

Could someone explain the effects of boosting the low end and power and excursion requirements, please? Does this driver not have sufficient xmax (14mm)?

Evan

I found the EQ filter option in Winisd so I've kind of answered my own questions here; excursion, power etc. with EQ.

Thanks anyways


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