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Old 23rd May 2013, 07:48 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
Hi,

The voicecoils Re is the parameter, that is responsible for low efficiency.
Also it spoils the damping factor.
For the magnetic drive system only the L of the voicecoil produces driving force.
Seen from the magnetic drive system, the Re is rather part of the output impedance of the amplifier. Calculations taking the Re into account show, that damping factors of the amplifier of more than 10-20 (hence output impedance values below 100mOhm) make hardly any difference.
In fact a lower Re would actually result in higher damping factors as seen from the voicecoil.
The amplifier needs to be capable to drive a low impedance, but then one may think of current driving amplifiers instead of the classical voltage driving amplifier feeding into very low impedance drivers as one can find among some car audio basses with multiple, which may be parallel connected then.

jauu
Calvin

Recently having driven the crown XTI4000 at 8 ohms stereo and 4 ohms mono most assuredly resulted in some of the worst sound I've heard using the exact same speaker into the lower impedance with the same speaker cable. I couldn't believe the difference. It wasn't subtle. The amp rated >500 for its damping factor didn't save it from poor sound. In my car, I can configure my TC sounds sub for 1 or 4 ohms and it was even worse there.

I guess in my two cases it fits the range of making a big difference.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 07:20 PM   #62
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yea, these switch-mode supplies seem to be junk on PA amplifiers.
No bass .............

Probably because either they cannot source current due to lack of transformer/caps, or maybe they cannot push current into the high impedance spike right within a sub-woofer's operating band.

Car amps seem to be doing it well, then again maybe they aren't. The prodigious bass is from the free 10-20db boost as you go below 100hz in a vehicle, not because the amplifier is a stellar bass amplifier.

Norman
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Old 25th May 2013, 04:20 PM   #63
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

Spinmonster, the soundquality for sure had nothing to do with the amplifiers damping factor, or better expressed, it' output impedance.
Most amps are configured as voltage sources and get into trouble if load impedance drops too low. With very low impedance speakers a current amplifier would be feasable.

jauu
Calvin
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Old 28th May 2013, 11:41 PM   #64
satx is offline satx  United States
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Hey guys,

Sorry I hadn't responded lately; been pretty busy.

Thanks for all the input; big help when it came to explaining what I should shoot for in regards to GD, port velocity etc. I think that helped more than the driver recommendations. Now I can use the modeling software to work it out for myself in the future.

It sounds like I really couldn't go wrong with any of them. The Dayton HF-12 doesn't sound like the best option for me though. Needs an enclosure as big as a 15". I'm going to pick-up the HO-15. If I absolutely had to go with a smaller enclosure I'd choose the tc12. Now, I can't decide on 300 or 500 watts. Looks like the HO will definitely like more power, but I don't know if I need it... hmm.

Thanks again

Evan
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Old 29th May 2013, 02:37 PM   #65
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I have 1500w on each of my HO-15's. I would strongly recommend a behringer nu1000dsp bridged or even a nu3000 dsp bridged, depending on how much headroom you want.
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Old 29th May 2013, 03:13 PM   #66
satx is offline satx  United States
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Originally Posted by turbodawg View Post
I have 1500w on each of my HO-15's. I would strongly recommend a behringer nu1000dsp bridged or even a nu3000 dsp bridged, depending on how much headroom you want.
It seems like there are downfalls to the pro amp though. No auto-on, fan noise, no high pass... anything else? How do you deal with these issues?

Evan
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Old 29th May 2013, 04:39 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by satx View Post
It seems like there are downfalls to the pro amp though. No auto-on, fan noise, no high pass... anything else? How do you deal with these issues?

Evan
Buy a "real" Pro amp instead of a Behringer.

ah...sorry

Dave
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Old 30th May 2013, 12:29 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by satx View Post
It seems like there are downfalls to the pro amp though. No auto-on, fan noise, no high pass... anything else? How do you deal with these issues?

Evan
Well, there is the fan mod to a quiet fan. I have no idea about auto on. High passing mains can be done by running them sealed (plugging ports) or a PLLXO if you have a separate amp, or a speaker level high pass. Overall though, I would try to not under power a sub if you can avoid it.

Last edited by turbodawg; 30th May 2013 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 30th May 2013, 12:31 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Shadydave View Post
Buy a "real" Pro amp instead of a Behringer.

ah...sorry

Dave
Real enough.......a nu6000dsp is more capable than a crown XTI4000 for 2/3rds the cost.
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Old 21st December 2013, 06:33 PM   #70
satx is offline satx  United States
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Originally Posted by turbodawg View Post
I have 1500w on each of my HO-15's. I would strongly recommend a behringer nu1000dsp bridged or even a nu3000 dsp bridged, depending on how much headroom you want.
Hey, resurrecting an old thread here. I got bogged down over the summer, but now I'm ready to build. I bought the Dayton RSS390HF. It will go in about 4.5ft sealed. I think this is a little different than what I was originally thinking.

Now, I was about to pull the trigger on the Dayton 500W plate amp with peq, but then I started second guessing my decision. The dayton is on sale right now for $210 and I've found both the inuke 1000dsp and 3000dsp for around the same price. I'd like the option to add a second 390HF down the road, but I'll just buy the plate amp if it's the best option right now. I do like the dsp on the inukes though as I'll be running it from my two channel amp and not my receiver so no bass management.

My problem is the Behringer 1000dsp appears to only have 210 watts rms/channel @ 4ohms. My sims show this not to really be enough especially if I eq to flat around 20Hz.

The 3000dsp may be too much at around 700 watts @ 4ohms and of course it's the most expensive. If I don't need it I'd rather not pay the premium. Sims show xmax +10% around 500W and under 200W eq'd.

I've asked about this at Hometheatershack, but I'm getting pretty minimal help. So, could somebody please respond with some decent in depth help. I want to place the order today before I lose the nice prices and I'd like to start building after Christmas.

Sorry for the long response, but I want to make a good decision; I don't buy things and consider them throw away if they suck because they're "only" $300

Thanks for any help
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