Please help me choose HO-15, HF-12, Epic 12 - Page 3 - diyAudio
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Old 15th May 2013, 05:01 AM   #21
satx is offline satx  United States
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Turobodawd,

Just took a look your build again; now I remember it. I only read the first couple pages before, because I saw in your original goals that you were tuning to 38Hz and planned on using it outdoors. I didn't figure you were looking for the kind extension and goals I was. I'll have to go back through the whole thing.

Evan
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Old 15th May 2013, 05:05 AM   #22
satx is offline satx  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
In a sealed enclosure (100L) the Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 12" (QTC = 0.713, F12=20Hz, max.SPL/1.00 m 106.7 dB) models nicer than the RSS315HF-4 12".
Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 8 Ohm 295-445
Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm High Fidelity Reference Series 295-464
I was only looking at 4 ohm drivers as to get the most from whatever sub amp I go with. Is there any benefit to using an 8 ohm driver in this aplication?

Evan
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Old 15th May 2013, 10:00 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satx View Post
I was only looking at 4 ohm drivers as to get the most from whatever sub amp I go with. Is there any benefit to using an 8 ohm driver in this aplication?

Evan
That's up to you. Do your math.
RSS315HFA-8 12" - (Pmin.) 172.7 W@8 Ohms, (V) 33.38 V, SPL/1 m 106.7 dB(@max. elongation 14.30 mm).
RSS315HF-4 12" - (Pmin.) 169.2 W@4 Ohms, (V) 23.63 V, SPL/1 m 107.5 dB(@max. elongation 14.30 mm).
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Old 15th May 2013, 01:26 PM   #24
DrDyna is offline DrDyna  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satx View Post
I was only looking at 4 ohm drivers as to get the most from whatever sub amp I go with. Is there any benefit to using an 8 ohm driver in this aplication?

Evan
I will generally pick lower impedance drivers for subwoofers, provided the amplifier is stable.

I'm still on the hunt for a decent subwoofer amplifier that's 1 ohm stable :S
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Old 15th May 2013, 01:44 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by satx View Post
Turbodawg: Yes, I did look at your build when I searched this before posting. Wasn't it for a PA application, though? Maybe that's a different build. So you're saying the HO has very good sound quality? Any ideas about the HO compared to the HF?

Evan
Quote:
Originally Posted by satx View Post
Turobodawg,

Just took a look your build again; now I remember it. I only read the first couple pages before, because I saw in your original goals that you were tuning to 38Hz and planned on using it outdoors. I didn't figure you were looking for the kind extension and goals I was. I'll have to go back through the whole thing.

Evan
Yes, it's for a portable PA system, but it has sound quality comparable to a pretty good hi-fi, with much higher output than a typical home system. I get usable extension to 30hz in room, with excellent bass definition, impact and output. I was looking for higher output 35-50hz so mine is tuned higher than a normal home sub, but it wouldn't be much of a change to tune lower.

Just make sure that to do all you can to improve air flow inorder to minimize port compression - look at the port and bracing in my project.
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Old 15th May 2013, 01:48 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by satx View Post
Scott: Are you saying there's no reason to go HF-12 over HO-15? I know the HF's need a large enclosure, it was just the implied improved SQ over the HO. I could probably squeeze a bit more size out of the enclosure if need be. The HF's curve only looked good in 3ft^3 when tuned low. In 4ft^3 it looks good around 20-24Hz.
From what I recall, the HF12 modeled very similarly to the HO15 in the same boxes/tuning. I went with the HO15 for 50% more displacement and better sensitivity....

Last edited by turbodawg; 15th May 2013 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 15th May 2013, 10:13 PM   #27
Scott L is offline Scott L  United States
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Default piston area wins every time

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Originally Posted by turbodawg View Post
From what I recall, the HF12 modeled very similarly to the HO15 in the same boxes/tuning. I went with the HO15 for 50% more displacement and better sensitivity....
Agree 100%. Also, I want to clarify from an earlier post; YES, the factory spec Fs is listed as 24(ish). I was pleasantly surprised when my pair measured out at 21 (ish). I have not used my particular twin pair in quite some time, but I plan on installing a secondary/ HT system in the next few days using these things. As far as sound quality, what i meant was, for sub frequencies only (80&down), there's no valid reason I can think of to use the 12" Hf version over this unit. Plus, as the "dawg" mentions, you got yourself a pumpin 15" over a 12", it's almost twice as much cone (piston) area.
I'll look for my old construction notes from 2009 (i think?) and also give an updated report on their sound quality in a few days.
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Old 15th May 2013, 11:24 PM   #28
satx is offline satx  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodawg View Post
Yes, it's for a portable PA system, but it has sound quality comparable to a pretty good hi-fi, with much higher output than a typical home system. I get usable extension to 30hz in room, with excellent bass definition, impact and output. I was looking for higher output 35-50hz so mine is tuned higher than a normal home sub, but it wouldn't be much of a change to tune lower.

Just make sure that to do all you can to improve air flow inorder to minimize port compression - look at the port and bracing in my project.

I went through the rest of your thread. Very nice build. They turned out a lot smaller, nicer looking than I was expecting for PA use.

I noticed you were very concerned with getting the port right, I assume it worked? I was thinking that the port opening was huge, I would have thought it would need to be a lot longer. I guess if I used a similar approach I might have issues with length since I would be tuning lower.

I like and usually use slot ports, but with this build I figured I would probably go with maybe two round ports so I could tune it differently by stuffing one or both.
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Old 15th May 2013, 11:31 PM   #29
satx is offline satx  United States
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Originally Posted by Scott L View Post
Agree 100%. Also, I want to clarify from an earlier post; YES, the factory spec Fs is listed as 24(ish). I was pleasantly surprised when my pair measured out at 21 (ish). I have not used my particular twin pair in quite some time, but I plan on installing a secondary/ HT system in the next few days using these things. As far as sound quality, what i meant was, for sub frequencies only (80&down), there's no valid reason I can think of to use the 12" Hf version over this unit. Plus, as the "dawg" mentions, you got yourself a pumpin 15" over a 12", it's almost twice as much cone (piston) area.
I'll look for my old construction notes from 2009 (i think?) and also give an updated report on their sound quality in a few days.
I see what you're saying about the 15" over a 12". I would only be using it below 80Hz, I actually usually crossover a bit lower than that. I do want tuneful, non-plodding, low bass though, but I'm guessing from your and dawg's recommendations that if properly designed/built I'll be happy with the HO-15.

Any thoughts on the TC Sounds 12". They are supposed to be monsters and have high sound quality. Models very well in 3ft^3 or less. Seems like the HO-15 and the TC-12 take a good amount of power.

Evan
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Old 16th May 2013, 12:14 AM   #30
satx is offline satx  United States
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Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
That's up to you. Do your math.
RSS315HFA-8 12" - (Pmin.) 172.7 W@8 Ohms, (V) 33.38 V, SPL/1 m 106.7 dB(@max. elongation 14.30 mm).
RSS315HF-4 12" - (Pmin.) 169.2 W@4 Ohms, (V) 23.63 V, SPL/1 m 107.5 dB(@max. elongation 14.30 mm).
Fair enough

I noticed that when I was modeling sealed alignments, they seemed to reach xmax with under 200W. I guess that just means I need less power, with the trade-off being I should expect less output? I don't listen at super high volumes, but I do like the ability when the mood strikes. Also, I don't want them to get damaged at decent movie watching levels. Maybe the acoustic suspension prevents this? I don't have any experience with sealed subs in a HT environment.

Evan
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