Please help me choose HO-15, HF-12, Epic 12 - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 14th May 2013, 06:08 PM   #11
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Evan,
Having in mind your max enclosure of 100L and price what driver(s) are you looking or considering now?!
(100L = 3.53ft³)
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Old 14th May 2013, 06:31 PM   #12
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Example #1:
Peerless Vifa NE315W-04 SubWoofer
NE315W04 - Neodymium Subwoofer - SPECIAL : 219.78$ - Solen Electronique Inc.
VB = 92.7 L, FB = 20.0 Hz tuning, "high" sensitivity and F8=20Hz (ff).
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Old 14th May 2013, 06:38 PM   #13
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Example #2:
SB Acoustics SB34SWNRX-S75 12" Woofer
Madisound SB Acoustics SB34SWNRX-S75 12" Subwoofer - Price: $188.30
In a VB = 75.0 L enclosure, tunned to FB = 19.2 Hz, F7=20Hz.
Amp power (Pmin.) 302.4 W@5.5Ohm for Xmax SPL/1.00 m 112.4 dB vs. 111.4 dB for previous example on #1 (/with Pmin. 163.8 W@3.4 Ohms).

Last edited by Inductor; 14th May 2013 at 06:45 PM. Reason: amp power
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Old 14th May 2013, 07:37 PM   #14
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Example #3:
Peerless 830847 XXLS12 - Another "high" sensitivity driver (classic)
Meniscus Audio Peerless, 830847 - Item price: $97.00
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/peerless/830847.pdf
Can use sub enclosure VB = 93.5 L@FB = 19 Hz will give you 20Hz @F-6.5dB.
Amp power required for max SPL/1.00 m=113.8 dB is (Pmin.) 350 W@3.0 Ohms.
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Old 14th May 2013, 08:35 PM   #15
Scott L is offline Scott L  United States
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Default tuning

Quote:
Originally Posted by satx View Post
Is it okay to tune an enclosure below the driver's fs? Like say tuning a 3ft^3 box for the Dayton HO-15 to 18Hz. I'm asking because this driver in an enclosure that I can acomadate has the best roll-off with a lower tune.

Evan
IMO 18 is too low; there is nothing to be gained and the price you pay is a dip in the response just above the tuning.
If this is for sub-woofer duties only, I don't see any benefit in going to the HF.
If memory serves, it needs a more than 3 cubic feet. Remember Hoffman's iron law. If you build this in the fashion of a classic discreet butterworth, you won't need as much power. I ran mine with 50 watts/per channel for a while.
Small sealed boxes will rob you blind in the power dept. Also, with this driver, the smaller the box, the more you will hear the oil can quality. Talk to PE about this, they will explain.
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Old 15th May 2013, 01:25 AM   #16
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In a sealed enclosure (100L) the Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 12" (QTC = 0.713, F12=20Hz, max.SPL/1.00 m 106.7 dB) models nicer than the RSS315HF-4 12".
Dayton Audio RSS315HFA-8 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 8 Ohm 295-445
Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm High Fidelity Reference Series 295-464
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Old 15th May 2013, 01:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott L View Post
My choice was a pair of HO-15's. I realize a pair is a bit higher than your budget, but if you build your own enclosure(s) maybe (?)

It's actually quite the amazing driver, especially at it's price. My bass reflex gets down to the mid 20's easily. I measured the fs of my pair and they were a tad bit lower than factory spec @ 21hz.
I think sometimes the bass reflex gets a bad rap, but to me, they always sound more relxed than a sealed box.
Of course, I am always doing things waay out-of-the-mainstream.
The Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 15" models nice in a BR ~82.5 L enclosure tunned to FB = 20 Hz, F7=20Hz. You need (Pmin.) 1500 W@4.0 Ohms for max excursion, SPL/1.00 m 119.9 dB.
Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 15" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 15" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 Ohm 295-469
The price of this driver at PE is $172.69 within the requirements of Evan ($150-200).

Scott,
The Fs is not 21 Hz but 24.2 Hz from spec.
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Old 15th May 2013, 01:56 AM   #18
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You've seen my ported ref HO 15 project?

Ultra compact ported 15" Dayton Ref HO

I modeled dozens of drivers and various horns before deciding to go with the ported HO as the best combination of extension, sensitivity and output for a 4 ft^3 gross box size. The model shows about 73L net, 15.5L port volume. I think you'll be very happy with 100L net tuned to 25hz, as long as you size the port large enough and use enough power.

The HO uses a very heavy and stiff aluminum cone and is very low distortion. It is certainly "quick" enough for bass frequencies. I last ran them with the following eq/filters, they have no problem producing strong kick:

Quote:
Ran the system again this past weekend in a large room, measured 28.5x22.5x10ft, concrete floor, wood walls, glass doors on far side and 6x10ft opening to another room on the side. Subs/tops had to be placed in front of a stage about 8 ft out from the back wall and against the side walls. Needed to use double sided tape to keep the subs from walking on the concrete floor, even though they have rubber feet and are about 90lb total with the tops/poles, and had to strap the poles to keep them from turning.

Ran them with about +3db Q3 boost @ 35 hz (tuning) and +5db Q2 boost around 110 hz, LP 190hz 4th order, HP 26hz 8th order. Also set limiter at -1db and seemed to be running into it with the kick due to the boost being so high. It kept the woofer from over excursion at lower frequences, but will tweak further.

Hit about 110db sustained with 114db peaks when briefly metered at the end of sound check. The 35hz boost seemed to work well with the room nodes and give a nice smooth low end fill and ample bass presence without being one-note sounding. Many compliments about the sound, including from the band, who had their own PA gear.
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Old 15th May 2013, 02:08 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satx View Post
Is it okay to tune an enclosure below the driver's fs? Like say tuning a 3ft^3 box for the Dayton HO-15 to 18Hz. I'm asking because this driver in an enclosure that I can acomadate has the best roll-off with a lower tune.

Evan
Scott already got to you.
18Hz is very low and when you tune low you run out of space and quality for the length of the ports with the required diameter. Many times you have to turn to passive radiators for obvious reasons, tunning low in this case.
For Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 15" look at my previous post #17.
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Old 15th May 2013, 03:42 AM   #20
satx is offline satx  United States
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Wow, Inductor! Thanks for all the help. You've deffinately given me some different drivers to think about. A few on your list I didn't know about. The Vifa looks interesting as does the Dayton HFA. I'll take a look.

Scott: Are you saying there's no reason to go HF-12 over HO-15? I know the HF's need a large enclosure, it was just the implied improved SQ over the HO. I could probably squeeze a bit more size out of the enclosure if need be. The HF's curve only looked good in 3ft^3 when tuned low. In 4ft^3 it looks good around 20-24Hz.

With the dip in response before tuning, what role will the do the driver's fs play? It's 24Hz I think.

Turbodawg: Yes, I did look at your build when I searched this before posting. Wasn't it for a PA application, though? Maybe that's a different build. So you're saying the HO has very good sound quality? Any ideas about the HO compared to the HF?

Evan
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