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-   -   Which Box for 2x10'' woofer's (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/235466-box-2x10-woofers.html)

HerrNuki 5th May 2013 10:44 PM

Which Box for 2x10'' woofer's
 
Hello, I have two Pioneer tsw-257D4 10'' woofer's here are their spec's:
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/4666/pajoo.jpg
I have used bass box pro software to build some enclosures for them and here is what I have made till now:
1. Vented Box tuned to 30Hz.

http://imageshack.us/a/img854/9359/vented.jpg

2. Band-Pass enclosure:

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/676/bandpass.jpg

I will run 800w RMS to them at 1 Ohm resistence ,my question for you guys is which one will be louder for daily usage (sometimes showoff) ,I like Deep bass around 30-40Hz because I mostly listen to Rap music.
Here are some chart's:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5395/graph1f.png
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/5057/graph2h.png

Inductor 6th May 2013 04:29 AM

You must be into car audio. Something tells me that group delay doesn't matter for you, in this case. Only few amps can run 1 Ohm stable?!

Etocynned 6th May 2013 05:13 AM

Considering the transfer function of the car and lack of cone control below fb, I'd run the bandpass box. It will be much louder and have cone control to a lower frequency due to the low tuning. Be careful with extremely low frequencies, you wont hear the driver dying, perhaps a highpass filter at 20 hz?

When you become concerned with sound quality, build a sealed box and damp the vibrations and road noise out of your car and carry on.

HerrNuki 6th May 2013 09:19 AM

Yes it will be build for my car, Amplifier is ESX Signum SE-1600:

1 x 300 Watts RMS @ 4 Ohms
1 x 550 Watts RMS @ 2 Ohms
1 x 800 Watts RMS @ 1 Ohms
Lowpass Filter 35 Hz -250 Hz
Subsonic Filter 15 Hz - 55 Hz
Phase Shift 0 - 180°
Extended Bass Control:
– Sub Boost 0 - 18 dB
– Frequency Range Controller 20 - 80 Hz
– Q-Control Wide - Narrow

I will use subsonic filter to prevent woofer's going below box tuning and lowpass filter to prevent higher frequencies so woofer's will always play in box bandwith.
My car has resonant frequency around 57Hz if that means something for you guys.

Best Regards
Nuki

Inductor 6th May 2013 09:52 PM

HerrNuki,
Your Re (from post #1) is wrong. Re for each VC (DVC) is 3.0 Ohms, from spec.
It should read:
Re for one DVC in parallel = 1.5 Ohms
Re for one DVC in series = 6.0 Ohms

If you parallel two woofers (1.5) you will get 0.75 Ohms.
If you connect the two drivers in series (2x1.5) you will have 3 Ohms.
Better make use of this connection (series/parallel) of the 4 voice coils (2xDVC drivers).

Your Sd (Surface Area of Cone) looks small from post #1. If missing (parameter) I would use (Sd) 350 cm², the same as in the other Pioneer products.

Regarding the 6th order bandpass for the Pioneer TS-W257D4, I don't get the same volumes/tunning. The (front/Va) enclosure looks ok, but the second (Vb/Fb) looks different in volume/tunning from my simulations, for a good design.
Some double checking must be done before you cut wood. :D

HerrNuki 12th May 2013 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inductor (Post 3481218)
HerrNuki,
Your Re (from post #1) is wrong. Re for each VC (DVC) is 3.0 Ohms, from spec.
It should read:
Re for one DVC in parallel = 1.5 Ohms
Re for one DVC in series = 6.0 Ohms

If you parallel two woofers (1.5) you will get 0.75 Ohms.
If you connect the two drivers in series (2x1.5) you will have 3 Ohms.
Better make use of this connection (series/parallel) of the 4 voice coils (2xDVC drivers).

Your Sd (Surface Area of Cone) looks small from post #1. If missing (parameter) I would use (Sd) 350 cm², the same as in the other Pioneer products.

Regarding the 6th order bandpass for the Pioneer TS-W257D4, I don't get the same volumes/tunning. The (front/Va) enclosure looks ok, but the second (Vb/Fb) looks different in volume/tunning from my simulations, for a good design.
Some double checking must be done before you cut wood. :D

Thank you for your reply and correction's I was going little to fast when entering values so I got them wrong.
Considering box tuning I couldn't determine what could be the problem maybe port area is what makes that difference in your simulation.
What do you think which one will be louder this bandpass or ported one.
I know that bandpass can go much lower in frequency range with great spl but who need's >25Hz when most song's are around 30-50Hz which can be easily achieved with ported enclosure.
What would you do in this case?

Inductor 16th May 2013 04:03 AM

1 Attachment(s)
After a while, to understand - sorry - something is telling me that the software simulation (I never used that software but it looks good) is considering the two woofers for the BR and also for the 6.order bandpass what gives a double int. volume chamber 2 for the two drivers. Something that I missed at first. The output models almost perfect for car gain, was it automatically made by the software (flat output from 20Hz to 80Hz for the bandpass) or was it made and adjusted (Va/Fa, Vb/Fb) by you?!

As you see, (answering your question) the car gain for the reflex (yellow line) gives a not so interesting curve. Again, double "ideal" volume (BR, Vb=73.29 L) because you are using two woofers (Vb for 2xdrivers). As I said, I never worked with that software before but it looks correct to me, after some time I was able to understand what you have there. OK, I don't have the experience to say that all can work as expected beyond the computer simulations, that look fine to me besides the model for the BR tunned a little to high in the 30's (Hz) (why?) that's all (look at my first picture for lower tunning). :)

HerrNuki 1st June 2013 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inductor (Post 3492811)
After a while, to understand - sorry - something is telling me that the software simulation (I never used that software but it looks good) is considering the two woofers for the BR and also for the 6.order bandpass what gives a double int. volume chamber 2 for the two drivers. Something that I missed at first. The output models almost perfect for car gain, was it automatically made by the software (flat output from 20Hz to 80Hz for the bandpass) or was it made and adjusted (Va/Fa, Vb/Fb) by you?!

As you see, (answering your question) the car gain for the reflex (yellow line) gives a not so interesting curve. Again, double "ideal" volume (BR, Vb=73.29 L) because you are using two woofers (Vb for 2xdrivers). As I said, I never worked with that software before but it looks correct to me, after some time I was able to understand what you have there. OK, I don't have the experience to say that all can work as expected beyond the computer simulations, that look fine to me besides the model for the BR tunned a little to high in the 30's (Hz) (why?) that's all (look at my first picture for lower tunning). :)


Hello, software is really great I built all my boxes using it and it the were always great sounding.
You can play with Va/Fa, Vb/Fb adjustment by yourself or you can use software suggested values those in my previous post were adjusted by me because software was going with much lower tuning that I doesn't need in car.
Box is built now tunned to 32Hz and it plays great. I have little port noise when I push woofers to the limit but that will be corrected soon as I get bigger diameter port.
Here is a quick video:

YouTube


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