"Best" PA subdesign for the Eminence Kappalite 3015LF - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 26th March 2013, 05:46 PM   #11
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It crossed my mind that you might want to look into a bandpass horn or ported horn, as they can go a bit lower at a smaller box size than a FLH. No idea if the T48 is already a bandpass horn or a FLH.
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Old 26th March 2013, 05:59 PM   #12
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodawg View Post
No idea if the T48 is already a bandpass horn or a FLH.
T48 is a 1/4 wave FLH without reactance annulling (by design)

Measurements can be found here:
ProSpeakers Forum - Fitzmaurice Titan 48 - Wayne Parham, October 21, 2007 at 14:31:26
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Old 26th March 2013, 07:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbell View Post
T48 is a 1/4 wave FLH without reactance annulling (by design)
An increase of 9 dB in power results in only a 3-5 dB increase in SPL, but around 7- 13 dB increase in distortion in the T48 test.
I wonder what they were loaded with?
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Old 26th March 2013, 07:47 PM   #14
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Might also want to look at this design for a low tuned 21" PA sub, looks like fun.....

Data-Bass
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Old 26th March 2013, 10:27 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
I wonder what they were loaded with?
These guys, it'd explain the distortion
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Old 26th March 2013, 10:47 PM   #16
Xoc1 is offline Xoc1  United Kingdom
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Here's a comparison of reflex vs TH for the 3015LF
The reflex cabs are 125 litre internal and tuned to be reasonably flat with a 46.5hz port tuning.
The SS15 cabs are about 210 litre internal.
Both are driven to Xmax at about 58V which is roughly in line with their 450W rating
The SS15 cabs are louder than the reflex from about 48Hz up in singles and about 42Hz in quads. It takes 6 of the reflex cabs to outperform the 4 SS15 cabs. The 6 reflex cabs would be still slightly smaller than the 4 tapped horns! but you would need 2 extra drivers and probably another amplifier to achieve this.
Build bigger reflex cabs and you might be able to get a lower frequency response but the cabs would be excursion limited.
There are no free lunches in speaker design but 4 SS15 cabs are within your grasp - You have the drivers and you have the timber.
Regards Xoc1
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Old 26th March 2013, 11:35 PM   #17
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Thank you very much for your input guys!
Great to hear about someone else building something nice with the 3015LF

After all suggestions here, I must say that Im leaning very heavily towards the SS15 right now!

Turbodawg, thanks for simming the 3015LF in a BR cab, if I understood you correctly I agree, seems that it wouldnt be worth trying to go to 30hz with the 3015LF, either in BR or Horn.

So, it seems that the Kappalite 3015LF simply isnt the driver to use in a portable PA if I want to go down to 30hz, going bigger then my current T48s doesnt feel all that fun...
Im thinking that it might be best to use the 3015s in smaller cabs, optimised for 35 or more like 40hz, and then look at bigger subs that goes to atleast 25-30hz, preferably horns for the efficiency, using better and maybe bigger drivers than my current 3015s.
Those bigger subs would probably only be used for larger shows with electronic music that really can use the extension.
So there would still be a good spot in my inventory for something like 4-6 SS15s

Xoc1, thanks for your comparison! It really does makes me want to go with some kind of Tapped Horn!

jbell, Ive been reading as much as I could of your Single Sheet TH challenge thread, and I really like it! Havent read half of it yet! :P The only referenceses Ive seen you make for the HPF for the SS15 has been a LR48 @ 40hz, but you wrote LR24 @ 32hz to me yesterday? A bit confused here

If I could get useable response down to 35-32hz with say 4 or even 6 SS15, well, then they are even more enticing

Seems that a lot of people think that the SS15 is the cab of choice for the 3015LF, but is there a design that could use the 3015LF, using a bit more wood(being larger) that would go say 5hz lower with a good response?
Ive seen references to the Furysub, but all links to it have been dead
The THAM15 cant use the 3015LF, can it?

Jbell, Im kinda noticing that your not a very big BFM/T48 fan, and it does seems like the SS15 has a better responsecurve than the T48 if one wants useable 40hz. You, or anyone else, dont happen to have chart that compare them? Or atleast, a chart for the SS15, havent found one..

Sorry for the long post guys...

Thanks again for all your help!
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Old 27th March 2013, 12:17 AM   #18
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Default T48 response

I looked at the Prosound Shootout 2007 mesurements that jbell linked to, I cant say they look good for the T48, compared to Bills posted responsecurve, atleast not for the 24" wide version.
It does of course also depend on which driver that was actually used in the cabs measured back in -07.

In all honesty, I have almost never been very impressed with the T48s I have, sure they do get loud, and clean, but its mostly upper bass frequencys, as to be expexted, and Ive almost allways wanted more, more SPL and probably more extension as well when running EDM. For livesound they have been really good
At one rave that we ran sound for 2 months ago, we got some really good bass though, 2 cornerloaded T48s in a room that is about 7x12m, 2,7m ceilings, one sub in each corner of one short wall. The place was more or less coming apart :P
So far no-one has complained on the extension, or spl for that matter, it might be just me that wants more

But I must say, the BFM Tuba30 impressed me alot when I ran my 2 DR280 tops with a friends 4 T30s, v-plated and wall-loaded, also on a smallish venue.
Im thinking that much of what Im missing with the T48 is the extension down to 30hz. But on the other hand, Im probably not getting all that much 40-50hz bass with the T48s, so a design that gets more in that area might be a good way to get closer to what I want

I might just have to build 2 SS15s or similar to compare Seems to be more than a few people that have gone from T48s to SS15s and have been impressed!
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Old 27th March 2013, 01:37 AM   #19
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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If you follow some of the links from SingleSheet challenge post1, we did a bunch of analysis, and determined the optimum Highpass of 32hz, 24db/oct LR. I usually go 'safe' on the high pass which is where 40hz came from, but have actually become a believer in highpass a bit lower. It keeps the cone moving to cool the coil, but keeps things below xmax. 32hz is that best value at 63v in the ss15.

The T48's in the 2007 shootout were Leland's cabinets with 3015lf's. After the T36 fiasco, where everyone found out that a customer built and measured (indoors) a T36, and that bill had never built/tested it... well, indoor measurements mean nothing... and that's why for 3YEARS no one could replicate the posted measurements.... Well I posted the 2007 shootout measurements and questioned if the posted T48 measurements that look nothing like the 2007 shootout numbers were indoors as well. I was banned from BFM land, and all posts deleted within minutes.... So, no... I'm no BFM fan, and I didn't save any of my BFM cabinet measurements when the hot dogs were roasted.

The one thing that is very true of BFM horns, they like a corner.... that's the one place they are happy. A big advantage of TH's, they are directional and don't need a corner.

If you find my thread on the 'stadium horns' that I built using 3015lf's, you'll find a real 30hz option... and several posts about the whole BFM mess. Stadium horns are anything but portable, and you can only drive them to 50v or so safely. The SS15 is the 'balanced' option between loud and low, that's really the best bet in my opinion.

Don't want anyone to think I'm trashing anyone's design's... just facts and history.
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Old 27th March 2013, 01:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin N Zone View Post
At one rave that we ran sound for 2 months ago, we got some really good bass though, 2 cornerloaded T48s in a room that is about 7x12m, 2,7m ceilings, one sub in each corner of one short wall. The place was more or less coming apart :P
I would expect exactly this given the frequency response of the T48. I would imagine they are not as good outside in a field or under some tops in front of a stage.
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