Most of the sewerage plumbing will be at the other end of the building so I don't anticipate any substitute sewer pits taking place 
Just thinking I don't really need to limit myself to either IB or TH, why not both...
I was originally going to mount my TC Sounds Pro 5100s in a couple of H baffles, but why not make some use of the wide wall for baffles, and run 4 TH boxes along the bottom front?
Just thinking I don't really need to limit myself to either IB or TH, why not both...
I was originally going to mount my TC Sounds Pro 5100s in a couple of H baffles, but why not make some use of the wide wall for baffles, and run 4 TH boxes along the bottom front?
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If you're going to build such an extreme build then you might consider to use twice as many drivers and slot mount them where one is reversed. This would reduce driver significantly distortion and cancel mechanical forces. Your house will thank you when playing lots of LFE content
There is a thread about this, also some information on Linkwitzlab since he uses the technique himself a lot.
If you go this route you could compensate by using smaller less fancy drivers since the strain on each driver is reduced.
Yes that runs along the same lines as the dipole woofer Dipole Woofer. I was quite interested in this design a while ago, but now that I have a bit more freedom a couple of PPSLs along the front might be quite nice.
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Hi Silent Screamer,
What a great project, one more vote for IB from me. I would recommend multiple IB subs based on the work discussed here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/134568-multiple-small-subs-geddes-approach.html , and (if necessary) additional sealed filler subs.
On the other hand, I like your initial horn ideas, take a look at this system: Dick Burwen's Sound System
Regards,
What a great project, one more vote for IB from me. I would recommend multiple IB subs based on the work discussed here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/134568-multiple-small-subs-geddes-approach.html , and (if necessary) additional sealed filler subs.
On the other hand, I like your initial horn ideas, take a look at this system: Dick Burwen's Sound System
Regards,
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Thanks TB46 quite an interesting approach taken by Geddes in making a non symmetrical layout.
Not sure why you would place a sub behind one mains and not the other... I wonder if this would still be the recommended placement with dipole mains?
I put together a picture of what I believe was recommended.
I wonder how you would go if you placed a sub top left and bottom right and at the back wall did bottom left and top right?
Not sure why you would place a sub behind one mains and not the other... I wonder if this would still be the recommended placement with dipole mains?
I put together a picture of what I believe was recommended.
I wonder how you would go if you placed a sub top left and bottom right and at the back wall did bottom left and top right?
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Hi Silent Screamer,
Markus76 and Pallas seem to have developed some practical experience with gedlee's approach. Here is the link from Post #5: mehlau.net > audio > multisub .
Somewhere in the multiple sub thread gedlee talks about room treatment, you might want to take a look at that subject.
Regards,
Markus76 and Pallas seem to have developed some practical experience with gedlee's approach. Here is the link from Post #5: mehlau.net > audio > multisub .
Somewhere in the multiple sub thread gedlee talks about room treatment, you might want to take a look at that subject.
Regards,
Currently I think I am trying to serve too many masters… Some really good suggestions have been put forward, but there is no way to implement everything. For example bjorno’s suggestion of a symmetrical double bass array, is polar to tb46’s suggestion of following the Geddes approach with random placement.
So it does make an intelligent decision very difficult as they all seems to have their own merits. So this is what I am going to do. I need to think about the room as a complete solution… i.e. what solution works well with OB mains? So here is how playing out
In the mains I have the dipole tweeters, with dipole mids and dipole mid woofers. I was going to put the 18” TC Sounds Pro 5100’s in a H baffle, but now I am very heavily leaning towards placing them flush in the front wall behind the mains to give the maximum baffle area and create an IB out of them. They would be run as low as possible as per the Geddes approach of both mains and SW down low together.
For the subs I am leaning towards quantity over quality, as in I will be looking to use more locations, over using dearer drivers like the TC Sounds drivers in smaller quantities. This leave me with one final decision and that is the cabinet type for the subs. Both TH and PPSL look like good candidates for the sub role, as neither will interfere with the IB woofers, if they don’t transmitted sound waves into the IB rear cavity, and have a better chance of playing lower than IB subs.
I do like the PPSL over the TH for the 2nd order cancellation, and being able to make use of both sides of the drivers. If that seems like a workable solution I would like to move onto driver recommendations for the subs.
I have also been thinking about switching the room around the other way (bigger width than length) to fit in the DBA and still retain screen size, but from what I can see that is acoustically less desirable.
So it does make an intelligent decision very difficult as they all seems to have their own merits. So this is what I am going to do. I need to think about the room as a complete solution… i.e. what solution works well with OB mains? So here is how playing out
In the mains I have the dipole tweeters, with dipole mids and dipole mid woofers. I was going to put the 18” TC Sounds Pro 5100’s in a H baffle, but now I am very heavily leaning towards placing them flush in the front wall behind the mains to give the maximum baffle area and create an IB out of them. They would be run as low as possible as per the Geddes approach of both mains and SW down low together.
For the subs I am leaning towards quantity over quality, as in I will be looking to use more locations, over using dearer drivers like the TC Sounds drivers in smaller quantities. This leave me with one final decision and that is the cabinet type for the subs. Both TH and PPSL look like good candidates for the sub role, as neither will interfere with the IB woofers, if they don’t transmitted sound waves into the IB rear cavity, and have a better chance of playing lower than IB subs.
I do like the PPSL over the TH for the 2nd order cancellation, and being able to make use of both sides of the drivers. If that seems like a workable solution I would like to move onto driver recommendations for the subs.
I have also been thinking about switching the room around the other way (bigger width than length) to fit in the DBA and still retain screen size, but from what I can see that is acoustically less desirable.
If you want to build a tapped horn but want 2nd dist and vibration cancellation why not just build a pushpull tapped horn? =)
Or if you don't need the vibration cancellation then you can get away with simply having two drivers and inverting one like Danley Sounds do in this tapped horn sub. Theirs is more overkill though with even more drivers =)
To be perfectly honest OllBoll I really don't know which would be the better option, as my only attempts to build a sub have resulted in failure.
I have a couple of CF 12" Jaycar Response drivers I could try either design. I also have a couple of the Vifa 10" hard paper cone drivers from another failed build.
Wouldn't look to use either in the final build, but might be ok to get a working concept happening.
I have a couple of CF 12" Jaycar Response drivers I could try either design. I also have a couple of the Vifa 10" hard paper cone drivers from another failed build.
Wouldn't look to use either in the final build, but might be ok to get a working concept happening.
Failure is the road to success =)
Why not? As per Geddes the quality of the drivers aren't that important as compared to simply having more so you could have both... use the higher quality drivers as main subs and your leftover drivers as filler sub(s) to fix the response. The strain on the filler subs is much less compared to the main subs so driver quality won't matter as much.
Why not? As per Geddes the quality of the drivers aren't that important as compared to simply having more so you could have both... use the higher quality drivers as main subs and your leftover drivers as filler sub(s) to fix the response. The strain on the filler subs is much less compared to the main subs so driver quality won't matter as much.
You have a point and beside they are just sitting in the shed unused at the moment. Think I am going to attempt a PPSL if I can work out how to model it. I think the very nature of the design of the PPSL lends itself better to 2nd order cancelation than the TH. Just seems easier on the eye as well.
Mind you I was having major problems trying to work out how a TH worked in Hornresp, so PPSL will be a real challenge for me.
Mind you I was having major problems trying to work out how a TH worked in Hornresp, so PPSL will be a real challenge for me.
If you want to have an easier time you could just buy a MiniDSP or equivalent and just tame the response into what you want regardless of the actual response
I already have DCN28 for my mains Ground Sound so I was thinking along the lines of something like a DCN23 or DCN24 for sub manipulation.
That is why I am not overly concerned with putting the 4th channels of the mains on the front wall.
That is why I am not overly concerned with putting the 4th channels of the mains on the front wall.
I don’t have the confidence that I will ever get Hornresp to work properly, so I am going to play it a safe and build a cavity all the way around the room and use matching slot loaded double bass arrays on the side walls.
I would prefer to put them in the front and rear walls but that compromises screen size by way too much.
I would prefer to put them in the front and rear walls but that compromises screen size by way too much.
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With further reading I discovered that a line array is preferable to a manifold due to the outlet size. If I was to use 16 IB drivers in a DBA arrangement I wonder if the bass might be overkill...
IB should produce less volume, as should the DBA, and maybe driven mildly they might be ok.
Also I know they say 1/4 & 3/4 but would that be the end of the world if that wasn't exact?
(not sure what to do with the Pro 5100s if I make the subs IB)
IB should produce less volume, as should the DBA, and maybe driven mildly they might be ok.
Also I know they say 1/4 & 3/4 but would that be the end of the world if that wasn't exact?
(not sure what to do with the Pro 5100s if I make the subs IB)
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Still trying to a achieve a workable DBA... Decided I don't need 16 x 15" subwoofer even if they are down on volume, so opted for 8 instead that should be heaps for movies.
Room is slowly creeping out in size but I have decided I will build all the interior walls of the home theatre room myself (with the help of my brother who is a cabinet maker)
Room is not so boring now and with some colour and decorating it should come up ok.
Going with IB sub which means I need to make the 18" Pro 5100 sealed or ported.
Room is slowly creeping out in size but I have decided I will build all the interior walls of the home theatre room myself (with the help of my brother who is a cabinet maker)
Room is not so boring now and with some colour and decorating it should come up ok.
Going with IB sub which means I need to make the 18" Pro 5100 sealed or ported.
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