Difference between Super Scoop and Folded Horn Subwoofers - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Subwoofers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th March 2013, 09:40 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
ClackS02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Kent, UK
Arrow Difference between Super Scoop and Folded Horn Subwoofers

Hello Guys!

I am fairly new to the construction of PA equipment, i have done a lot of work with Car Audio builds.

I am going to be performing at a couple of outside parties (fields) this summer and i am looking at getting some bass bins for my gear! It seems to me the best way to go would be either folded horn or super scoop!

However, i havent a clue what design would be good for me?

I currently have 2x JBL JRX 115 which are great! but i will need more energy especially if im outside.

I plan on building two bins using 2 x 18" Pa Bass Drivers around 1000 watt RMS with 4" voice coils.

Can you guys help me please!!!!!!!!

Superscoop:
Click the image to open in full size.

Folded Horn:
Click the image to open in full size.


PLEASE HELP!

Steve
-DubRoach Production
DubRoach Weekly HOME
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2013, 01:52 PM   #2
Xoc1 is offline Xoc1  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Xoc1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Devon UK
Your JBL JRX115 are fairly flat to 100Hz so there are many subs that will work.
The front loaded folded horn design you posted is not really suitable as it is designed to be used in a corner which tend to be in short supply outdoors. Front loaded horns tend to be used in multiples to produce high SPL levels - Think very big and loud.
The Scoop design can work and are certainly loud - They tend to have a big hole in the response about 80Hz so if you choose to build one take care that the frequency response will match your JBL mid tops
Speakerplans.com
A Scoop bin is closely related to a Tapped Horn. Tapped horns have a smoother response that would match you speakers better. Plenty of designs around here that would be suitable!
How much noise do you want to make?
It you want to avoid trouble and keep the neighbours happy you might be better off with a pair of reflex ported subs - they certainly would be the most compact option.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2013, 02:00 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
ClackS02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Kent, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoc1 View Post
Your JBL JRX115 are fairly flat to 100Hz so there are many subs that will work.
The front loaded folded horn design you posted is not really suitable as it is designed to be used in a corner which tend to be in short supply outdoors. Front loaded horns tend to be used in multiples to produce high SPL levels - Think very big and loud.
The Scoop design can work and are certainly loud - They tend to have a big hole in the response about 80Hz so if you choose to build one take care that the frequency response will match your JBL mid tops
Speakerplans.com
A Scoop bin is closely related to a Tapped Horn. Tapped horns have a smoother response that would match you speakers better. Plenty of designs around here that would be suitable!
How much noise do you want to make?
It you want to avoid trouble and keep the neighbours happy you might be better off with a pair of reflex ported subs - they certainly would be the most compact option.
This is very accurate and helpful info thanks!!!

I would want to use these for a large outdoor party this summer (to give you an idea of size) for about 500-600 people. So i would want as much as possible!

What do you mean by Scoop design ???? this term confuses me! Could you give me an example? maybe an image ? that would be great!

I dont need to worry about neighbors They all have pretty much no hearing at all anyway !!!
__________________
-Steve C
-DubRoach Production
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2013, 02:46 PM   #4
more10 is offline more10  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Solna
Scoop is a nickname for JBL 4530 (single driver) and 4520 (dual driver) back loaded horns:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

They look like big scoops.

Superscoop is the 18" driver version from speakerplans. Also a back loaded horn.

All backloaded horns have a design problem with cancellation when the output from the horn is out of phase with the front of the driver. At about 3 times the lowest frequency of the horn. But the backloaded horn will give 3 dB more output at the low end compared to a front loaded horn. The JBL 4530 has the first cancellation at about 150 Hz:

Click the image to open in full size.

A good compromise would be to build (or buy) several backloaded horns with a bit shorter horn path, like the JBL 4530. The JBL 4530 will be useful from about 50 Hz to about 140 Hz. You can stack them lying down in two rows with the driver end toghether to achieve "long throw". I believe 8 of these will achieve pretty good output outdoors.

Last edited by more10; 12th March 2013 at 02:48 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2013, 02:53 PM   #5
more10 is offline more10  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Solna
Since you are in UK, you should be able to get you hands on cheap Martin front loaded horns.

Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2013, 03:01 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
ClackS02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Kent, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by more10 View Post
Scoop is a nickname for JBL 4530 (single driver) and 4520 (dual driver) back loaded horns:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

They look like big scoops.

Superscoop is the 18" driver version from speakerplans. Also a back loaded horn.

All backloaded horns have a design problem with cancellation when the output from the horn is out of phase with the front of the driver. At about 3 times the lowest frequency of the horn. But the backloaded horn will give 3 dB more output at the low end compared to a front loaded horn. The JBL 4530 has the first cancellation at about 150 Hz:

Click the image to open in full size.

A good compromise would be to build (or buy) several backloaded horns with a bit shorter horn path, like the JBL 4530. The JBL 4530 will be useful from about 50 Hz to about 140 Hz. You can stack them lying down in two rows with the driver end toghether to achieve "long throw". I believe 8 of these will achieve pretty good output outdoors.
This is a great help! However, my only worry is having the speaker on show..! Im in the UK, and that means a lot of rain!

Would you say there is anything bad against Folded Horns like the following:
MX-F18B - MX SERIES - Wharfedale Pro
Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
-Steve C
-DubRoach Production
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2013, 03:24 PM   #7
more10 is offline more10  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Solna
One drawback is the cost. 1400£ apiece.

There is no information on how many you will need to get flat response outdoors. You will most probably need at least 4 for one sub.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2013, 03:26 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
ClackS02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Kent, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by more10 View Post
One drawback is the cost. 1400£ apiece.

There is no information on how many you will need to get flat response outdoors. You will most probably need at least 4 for one sub.
Thats not quite what i meant, i mean the design, the folded design, if i built my own would there be anything you recommend/avoid ?

The building part isnt a problem, just dont want to waste time and money if im not happy with it in the end!

Appreciate your Help !
__________________
-Steve C
-DubRoach Production
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2013, 03:59 PM   #9
more10 is offline more10  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Solna
A properly designed front loaded horn will sound better than a back loaded horn or a tapped pipe. It will have less output though, or be bigger than a back loaded horn or tapped pipe. If you want quality go for front loaded horn.

The warfedale is a front loaded horn.

You will need to decide on how low you want your system to go. The size and cost for a 20 Hz system is probably 4 times compared to a 30 Hz system.

Find a few plans, Speakerplans.com, PA Systems, sound systems, speaker boxes, live Sound - Dancetech, match them to you needs. A good plan should have advice on which drivers to use, and how many you will need for outdoors use.

Precision Devices makes excellent low cost drivers and are based in the UK.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2013, 04:16 PM   #10
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Texas
Hi ClackS02,

You can use Hornresp by David McBean to answer many of your questions.

Hornresp

Without a tool like this you will be talking mainly in generalities (which is fine too. :-)). You need to share what you are actually going to use these subwoofers for, and with (the more detail, the better).

Regards,
__________________
Oliver

Last edited by tb46; 12th March 2013 at 04:19 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
JBL 4530 scoop with 4560 front loaded horn Oliebaron Multi-Way 1 1st November 2012 06:35 PM
Folded horn - volume between subwoofer cone ane th start of the horn benpalmer Subwoofers 8 9th April 2012 01:10 PM
Entering horn meaurements fora folded horn (hornsrep) Tidy Max Software Tools 3 21st February 2011 02:28 AM
Is the Super Scooper the same as the normal scoop bass bin Bull Multi-Way 1 23rd February 2003 11:13 PM
Help! With a rear horn loaded scoop bass bin slicemaster101 Multi-Way 38 17th October 2002 09:38 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:28 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2