Difference between Super Scoop and Folded Horn Subwoofers - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 13th March 2013, 08:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tb46 View Post
Hi ClackS02,

You can use Hornresp by David McBean to answer many of your questions.

Hornresp
Regards,
Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by more10 View Post
A properly designed front loaded horn will sound better than a back loaded horn or a tapped pipe. It will have less output though, or be bigger than a back loaded horn or tapped pipe. If you want quality go for front loaded horn.

The warfedale is a front loaded horn.

You will need to decide on how low you want your system to go. The size and cost for a 20 Hz system is probably 4 times compared to a 30 Hz system.

Find a few plans, Speakerplans.com, PA Systems, sound systems, speaker boxes, live Sound - Dancetech, match them to you needs. A good plan should have advice on which drivers to use, and how many you will need for outdoors use.

Precision Devices makes excellent low cost drivers and are based in the UK.
Could you give me an example of a front loaded and a tapped pipe? I need it to be LOUD for outside and large halls. I will be playing electronic music, from house to Dubstep/Trapstep.

I just really dont want to spend money building something that will be no good! as you can imagine I appreciate your help !
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Old 13th March 2013, 10:11 AM   #12
more10 is offline more10  Sweden
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Rog Mogales 1850 horn is a front loaded horn:

Click the image to open in full size.

It is called front loaded because the driver has a back chamber and the horn is in the front of the driver.

A front loaded horn is good because there is only one source for the sound, through the horn. This kind of horn will work for about 3 octaves.

Another one is the lab horn:

Click the image to open in full size.

That one is actually very cleverly designed.

Martinssons tham15 is a typical tapped horn:

Click the image to open in full size.

A tapped horn is a tweak on the back loaded horn. It has two sound sources, the back of the driver through the horn, and the front of the driver. The sound from the back will be delayed relative the sound from the front, you will hear everything twice with small delay. This kind of horn will work for about 1˝ ocaves. This kind of horn has the advantage of giving more output in the low end compared to a front loaded horn.

The horn path length is determined by the lowest reproduced frequency, it needs to be 1/4 wave long. For 20 Hz the path needs to be 344/20/4= 6 meter long. The horn opening need to be a full wave in circumreference for a horn suspended i free air. 344/20 = 17 meters. Diameter will be approx 5 meters. If placed on the ground you can do with half the area. Horns going down to 20 or even 25 needs to be very large. This kind of horn will have a bandwidth of full 3 octaves, that is 20-160 Hz.

In order to make the horn smaller, you can make the horn opening much smaller, it will be more like a pipe. This is how the tapped horns work, they should be named tapped pipes instead. The pipe will have much less bandwidth say 20-60 Hz. It will be very large anyways. If you need to reach 100 Hz, the lowest frequency of this kind of horn will have to be 35-40 Hz.

Yet another solution is a front loaded pipe, a long pipe with small exit area and a back chamber, like this one I built:

Click the image to open in full size.

It is still bandwidth limited (using hifi criteria) to about 2 octaves.
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Old 13th March 2013, 02:56 PM   #13
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I think i will go for the front loaded... Sounds good to me, i will upload the project as i go

Thank you everyone for you help! Its nice to know theres people out there that will take the time to help out !!!!
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Old 13th March 2013, 06:05 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ClackS02 View Post
I think i will go for the front loaded... Sounds good to me, i will upload the project as i go

Thank you everyone for you help! Its nice to know theres people out there that will take the time to help out !!!!
FLH need larger enclosures to go as loud and low as TH (tapped horns).
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Old 13th March 2013, 06:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
FLH need larger enclosures to go as loud and low as TH (tapped horns).
This is only true if you use a classically defined horn flare. As I've mentioned several times, a front loaded 1/4 wave resonator (the small things that most people call front loaded horns) don't need to be any larger than tapped horns for the same spl and low corner. I can actually usually get 2 db more out of front loaded 1/4 wave resonators than tapped "horn" (with same volume and low corner) AND flatter response but sometimes it takes an unusual flare geometry to get there.
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Old 13th March 2013, 06:42 PM   #16
OscarS is offline OscarS  United States
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Originally Posted by more10 View Post
A tapped horn is...will work for about 1˝ octaves.
How about this for tapped horns---over 2 full octaves

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Old 13th March 2013, 07:49 PM   #17
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How about this for tapped horns---over 2 full octaves
And Danley regularly gets a full 3 octaves out of the low tuned tapped horns. It's bumpy but it's a full 3 octaves.
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Old 13th March 2013, 08:13 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by just a guy View Post
This is only true if you use a classically defined horn flare. As I've mentioned several times, a front loaded 1/4 wave resonator (the small things that most people call front loaded horns) don't need to be any larger than tapped horns for the same spl and low corner. I can actually usually get 2 db more out of front loaded 1/4 wave resonators than tapped "horn" (with same volume and low corner) AND flatter response but sometimes it takes an unusual flare geometry to get there.
Just a Guy,

Using Hornresp simulations I found the same thing as what you just wrote, while the actual FLH build measurements came out far less than predicted.
I spent extensive time tweaking the Domino DFLH, it had more upper output than a TH, but less LF.

Do you have an actual measured comparison of an actual build that actually shows a FLH that puts out 2 dB more LF level than a TH of the same volume using the same driver?

Art
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Old 13th March 2013, 08:22 PM   #19
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My primary experience is Hornresp simulations.

My secondary experience is with front loaded 1/4 wave "horns" and tapped "horns" that I've built. In all horns I've built, the measured response almost exactly overlays the simulation BUT I don't have an spl calibrated mic and I haven't built a flh and tapped horn specifically to test this case (same volume and low corner).

Regardless of the fact that my mic is not calibrated, the sims overlay the measurements almost exactly, so unless the entire bandwidth is lower than predicted, in my experience there's no reason not to trust Hornresp for any alignment.

I'd like to look over your results if you have published them. Your experiences don't seem to match mine.

Last edited by just a guy; 13th March 2013 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 13th March 2013, 08:52 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by just a guy View Post
My primary experience is Hornresp simulations.

My secondary experience is with front loaded 1/4 wave "horns" and tapped "horns" that I've built. In all horns I've built, the measured response almost exactly overlays the simulation BUT I don't have an spl calibrated mic and I haven't built a flh and tapped horn specifically to test this case (same volume and low corner).

I'd like to look over your results if you have published them. Your experiences don't seem to match mine.
Here are my results:

Keystone Sub Using 18,15,&12 Inch Speakers

Lab 12 Domino DFLH

I'd like to see your sims and measured results.

Art
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