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Old 25th February 2013, 06:20 PM   #31
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Default Post #30

Hi m R g S r,

I think PB replaced the normal taper w/ a stepped approach, which I think is a valid way of doing a tapped horn. TundraLTD has the more correct version according to his pictures. So we're looking at clone v. copy?

Regards,
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Old 25th February 2013, 09:41 PM   #32
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Hi m R g S r,

PB's Hornresp Input for the SWR-1522D in Post #27 looks much closer to the drawing, and you can see the stepping quite nicely. I would probably build it w/ 23/32" plywood, and ample bracing.

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File Type: pdf PB_TH50_Clone_Alpine_SWR_1522D.pdf (39.3 KB, 99 views)
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Old 26th February 2013, 04:18 PM   #33
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Nice drawing, lets have someone build this now!
(I have absolutely no need, so it's not gunna be me lol)
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Old 26th February 2013, 04:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tb46 View Post
Hi Patrick Bateman,

Post #27: "... even flatter response with four of the Alpine Type S 10" woofers..."

Well, here you go again. :-) Just two questions:

1. How do you propose to mount four 10" drivers in this box?
Click the image to open in full size.
This is how you mount the MTX 9515 15" woofer, and the Alpine SWR-1522D 15" woofer. Note that the cabinet width for the Alpine is reduced by one third, as detailed in my post from earlier this week.

Click the image to open in full size.
Instead of a single MTX 9515 15" woofer, one can use *four* of the Alpine SWS-10D2 woofers. These are widely available. For instance, they're readily available "over the counter" at Car Toys for under $100 each. You can likely find them at the usual suspects too. (Best Buy, your local Alpine dealer, etc.) The Type S woofers are way easier to find than the Type X or the Type R.

Anyways, if you want to use four tens instead of one fifteen, I would mount them as illustrated above. Note that the woofers are mounted "two deep." The dimensions of the cabinet are the exact same as the Danley TH-50, IE it's 25.5" deep.

One might wonder "why would I use four tens?" There *are* a few advantages to four tens over one fifteen:

1) The power handling of four tens is potentially very high, as the thermal load is distributed over *four* 2.6" voice coils instead of the single 2.6" voice coil in the Alpine 15".

2) To me, the most attractive advantage of using tens instead of fifteen is that you can split the cabinet in half. For instance, instead of using a single cabinet that's 25.5" deep you could use *two* cabinets with half of the depth each, and half of the woofers. In a home environment this allows one to implement a 'Geddes style' multi-woofer setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tb46 View Post

2. Have you at least taken a look at the sketch I posted in Post #21?

Your data in Hornresp (Post #2, the dashed black lines in my roll-out drawing, that is labled 'From PB Hornresp') does not agree with the size of your box (Post #1, the blue solid roll-out lines labled 'From drawing') (even if executed in 1/2" wood, as I did in the drawing, the actual horn path is not even close to the size of the Hornresp horn path. By the way, I would not recommend that light a wood for this box).

Please, let me know if I missed something, as I find this to be an interesting example of the TH.

Regards,
I have a big project due tomorrow morning but hope to have some time to double check the dimensions of my illustration versus the hornresp data.
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Old 26th February 2013, 04:50 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blossom View Post
Patrick, you mention both the Alpine SWR-1522D and Alpine SWR-1542D.
Are both these drive applicable to this design?
Not just the SWR-1522D and the 1542D, there are practically a hundred drivers that work in the TH-50.*

Here's my take on it:

Tapped horns are more sensitive to driver parameters than vented boxes and sealed boxes. BUT they're not *that* sensitive. And particularly when the horn is large, the driver parameters become less important.

^^^ all of that is my opinion of course.

Here's an example of what I mean:

The Danley TH-115 is a 14.84 cubic foot tapped horn. For a fifteen, that's relatively small. But the TH-50 is a whopping 22.6 cubic feet. And due to that 'bump' in size, the TH-50 horn geometry tends to 'dominate' the frequency response of the horn.

Basically, the bigger your tapped horn is, the less critical it is to have a driver that's a 'perfect' match for the horn. This can be particularly helpful if you're using car audio drivers, where the qts is much higher than what you'll see with prosound drivers.

Click the image to open in full size.
Here's an example of what I mean, from the very good data-bass.com site**. They built a Danley DTS-10 with both the 'stock' driver and also with a TC Sounds driver. See how the response is quite similar?

And I'm a big fan of car audio drivers. They're easier to find than prosound drivers, and they tend to offer massive amounts of displacement for the money. For instance, I challenge anyone to show me a B&C driver that delivers as much output per dollar as the Alpine Type S and Type R drivers. The flat BL curve of those drivers is just icing on the cake.

* off the top of my head, you can use the Alpine Type R fifteens, both the 4ohm and 2ohm. You can also use the tens, but you need to use multiple drivers, or reduce the depth of the horn to get the volume down. I'd be willing to bet that two of the twelves could be used instead of one of the fifteens. And on top of that, there are about a hundred car audio drivers with similar parameters. The thiele-small parameters of the Alpine drivers are pretty standard for car audio drivers, the main difference between the Alpines and the rest of the pack is the flat BL curve at such a low price point.


** full data on the dts-10 experiment : http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=content&id=1

Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 26th February 2013 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 27th February 2013, 09:12 PM   #36
maxo is offline maxo  United States
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So , what would be the final plans and driver to use to make one of those
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Old 3rd November 2013, 12:35 PM   #37
DrDyna is offline DrDyna  United States
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Does anyone know if MTX has released a replacement for the discontinued 15? I looked around online and all the MTX 15s I can find now seem a little....lackluster.

Edit: The Alpine looks cool, but I think I'd really like to try the TH-50 as close to a clone as I could.

I have an excuse to build new THs as my old ones were water damaged, so I've been mental-shopping around to see what's out there, and this looks to be a decently easy thing to try.
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Old 3rd November 2013, 03:05 PM   #38
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The replacement isn't what the old driver was, which is why Danley stopped making this. (Or so I hear).

Tundra scooped up 4 drivers somehow, and he may have all 4 cabinets completed by now. Not sure. That must be prettyyy nutty!
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Old 5th November 2013, 03:49 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m R g S r View Post
The replacement isn't what the old driver was, which is why Danley stopped making this. (Or so I hear).

Tundra scooped up 4 drivers somehow, and he may have all 4 cabinets completed by now. Not sure. That must be prettyyy nutty!
It wasn't as easy as scooping them up haha, I paid my out of work brother to call every car audio dealer in the country that we could find. I have LF that would make anyone smile! I'm actually looking at buying a shipping container to store some of the designs I've made, the house is full of speakers
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Old 5th November 2013, 04:45 AM   #40
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Got any pics? I know what you mean with having stuff sitting. Good wood boxes lonely with no drivers In them
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