Corner horn subwoofer - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Subwoofers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th February 2013, 05:51 AM   #11
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by kctess5 View Post
Hmmm I've used that before and I thought it pretty much just increases output over the whole range.
Hi kctess5,

Not so.

At very low frequencies there is a theoretical +6 dB improvement in SPL response each time the solid radiation angle is halved. 3 dB is due to improved acoustical loading conditions (enabling twice the power to be radiated), and the other 3 dB is due to the doubled power radiating into half the space. Going from free space to eighth space therefore gives an 18 dB increase overall.

At very high frequencies (assuming constant directivity) there is only a +3 dB enhancement - the acoustical loading conditions do not change when the solid radiation angle is halved. Going from free space to eighth space therefore gives a 9 dB increase overall.

The attached example shows the difference going from free space (4 x Pi) to eighth space (0.5 x Pi). The low frequency response is improved by 18 dB and the upper frequency response by 9 dB, as expected.

Kind regards,

David
Attached Images
File Type: png Compare.png (65.6 KB, 238 views)
__________________
www.hornresp.net
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2013, 06:21 AM   #12
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
kctess5 - easy to make a box that kind of looks like a horn. But even the Klipschorn (35 - 400 Hz) is at the very limits of "cutting [theoretical] corners" and even cutting those corners leave a lot to be desired in performance. And this big box goes NOWHERE anything under 35 Hz.

Just forget this idea of a horn concept. Inconceivably unfeasible in light of everything you've said that matters to you.... unless for no good reason what so ever you think a "tapped horn" is a some kind of horn?

BTW, there are people on this forum who pop up just to argue just because.... I don't know why... maybe they couldn't get into Mensa.

Ben
Hi Ben. You've been arguing against tapped horns for several years now, but I'm betting you've still never actually heard one.

Here's an example of a tapped horn (using a 6 inch driver - tang band w6-1139) I did way back in 2009, back when we were still fumbling around trying to figure tapped horns out. Total cost was about $75 (in 2009 dollars) including driver and wood.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Pic 1 shows it's not very large at all, the missing dimension (width) is 8 inches.
Pic 2 shows groundplane response (outside in my driveway at about 7 meters away).
Pic 3 shows same as pic 2 but with a bunch of stuffing crammed in the mouth hole.
Pic 4 is the same horn in the corner of my room, measured at the listening position (no stuffing, and the null is worse due to floor/ceiling cancellation).
SPL is not absolute in any of these, the mic is uncalibrated and these were taken at different distances under different conditions.

If I were to do this again today it wouldn't have that nasty dip and I could easily get the full 3 octaves out of it just by moving the driver a few cm back from the mouth. For that matter, I could change it from a tapped design to front loaded and still get the same bandwidth in the same size package.

As you can see, it hits 20 hz no problem in a very small package. When used below 80 hz it's the best sounding sub I own - which includes front loaded, ported, tl and sealed. That's a subjective judgement but it's true as far as I'm concerned.

You could easily argue that it's not a full sized horn, but most aren't. With the fingers on one hand, I can count the number of properly designed full sized bass horns I've seen in my lifetime. A stack of 8 Labhorns being one of them.

You could easily argue that tapped horns are not really horns, but then again, most front loaded horns are not horns either, by the classical definition. The vast majority are quarter wave resonators, front loaded and tapped.

Just because a classically defined horn won't fit inside a dorm room doesn't mean you can't hit 20 hz easily in a small enclosure with a flare that expands from throat to mouth in a package that 1 man (or woman) can easily carry; will easily get loud enough to get you evicted, and sound great at the same time. You don't even have to use the room's corners as part of the design.

Last edited by just a guy; 10th February 2013 at 06:51 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2013, 08:30 AM   #13
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto and Delray Beach, FL
I am unworthy of the care just a guy puts into his post. True, never heard one - and that should mean something to this forum which is the world's sole repository of posts favourable to "tapped horns."

You have shown (and I have always believed) that you can hand-configure through good design and luck excellent small frequency range speakers with a "tapped horn, BR, or Karlson. But those systems feature a tactic I find repellant as a concept: trafficking in resonances as a principal means of boosting bass. Footnote: luck (as in choosing a TH driver) not a big factor in other designs.

My real problem is that I find it appalling to call these boxes horns. The part that kind of looks like a horn is just a distance spacer, no different than the volume of a BR or length in a TL; maybe the taper has some minor benefit but it does no horn transformations worth fussing about much.

I believe calling it a horn (a high-status name) arose from discreditable commercial motivations rather than from anything in the patent(s).

TH can be just right, I suppose, for many church halls and maybe on a good day for home systems, like BRs and Karlsons.

Ben
__________________
Dennesen ESL tweets, Dayton-Wright ESL (110-3200Hz), mixed-bass Klipschorn (35-110), and giant OB using 1960's Stephens woofer (18-35); Behringer DSP. HiFi aspirations since 1956

Last edited by bentoronto; 10th February 2013 at 08:40 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2013, 08:31 AM   #14
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto and Delray Beach, FL
[repeat post bug]
__________________
Dennesen ESL tweets, Dayton-Wright ESL (110-3200Hz), mixed-bass Klipschorn (35-110), and giant OB using 1960's Stephens woofer (18-35); Behringer DSP. HiFi aspirations since 1956
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2013, 09:10 AM   #15
kctess5 is offline kctess5  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: California
Quote:
1. Plan for a 20 hz vertical tapped horn ( several plans on this forum) and plan on crossing fairly early - say 60hz or so
That was the original plan. I am just thinking about different options as the full sized 16Hz tapped horn I designed is pretty large and would be hard to move for the summers. The good part about that horn though is it is (theoretically) ruler flat from 16-70Hz and is sensitive enough that I wouldn't need a large amp.

Quote:
The attached example shows the difference going from free space (4 x Pi) to eighth space (0.5 x Pi). The low frequency response is improved by 18 dB and the upper frequency response by 9 dB, as expected.
Thanks for the info! I will work with hornresp a bit tomorrow if I get a chance. I am not so much going for a "true horn" as a sealed enclosure that is designed around the fact that it will be corner loaded, taking as much advantage of that as possible.

Quote:
Just forget this idea of a horn concept. Inconceivably unfeasible in light of everything you've said that matters to you.... unless for no good reason what so ever you think a "tapped horn" is a some kind of horn?
Ok thanks for your input but could you think of a more obnoxious way to put this? I don't even know how that bit about tapped horns is relevant to this I'm not asking about tapped horns. If you are just here to argue against tapped horns or terminology please start your own thread.

Quote:
BTW, there are people on this forum who pop up just to argue just because.... I don't know why... maybe they couldn't get into Mensa.
Such as you? What does MENSA have to do with this again?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2013, 01:49 PM   #16
zobsky is offline zobsky  India
diyAudio Member
 
zobsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dallas, Tx, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by kctess5 View Post
That was the original plan. I am just thinking about different options as the full sized 16Hz tapped horn I designed is pretty large and would be hard to move for the summers. The good part about that horn though is it is (theoretically) ruler flat from 16-70Hz and is sensitive enough that I wouldn't need a large amp.



Thanks for the info! I will work with hornresp a bit tomorrow if I get a chance. I am not so much going for a "true horn" as a sealed enclosure that is designed around the fact that it will be corner loaded, taking as much advantage of that as possible.



Ok thanks for your input but could you think of a more obnoxious way to put this? I don't even know how that bit about tapped horns is relevant to this I'm not asking about tapped horns. If you are just here to argue against tapped horns or terminology please start your own thread.



Such as you? What does MENSA have to do with this again?
A gently dropping response from high to low end may be better than a flat response wrt room modes
__________________
"Any fool can know. The point is to understand" - Albert Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th February 2013, 02:13 PM   #17
DrBoar is offline DrBoar  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
DrBoar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Stockholm
A rather big corner horn, I think the graphs gives you most of the relevant information but use Google translate if you are less than fluent in Swedish
KensonPro Home

Last edited by DrBoar; 10th February 2013 at 02:14 PM. Reason: swinglish
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2013, 07:09 AM   #18
freddi is offline freddi  United States
diyAudio Member
 
freddi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
I've got badly resonant walls - they ruin whatever can be had from a K-horn. Mine sound terrible. Here's the response of a late 1970's Khorn in that ~18' x 27' x 8' room

20 years ago I had plans for Ben Drisko's corner horn which may have gone somewhat lower (?)

Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2013, 12:23 PM   #19
Xoc1 is offline Xoc1  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Xoc1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Devon UK
William Cowan has a horn on his website that uses the corner as the last horn segment
Horn Subwoofer
Might be worthwhile checking it out for some ideas
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th February 2013, 02:31 PM   #20
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Texas
Hi kctess5,

Post #1: "... standard dorm sized rectangle roughly 10'x15'..."

How about carpenter's corner tapped horn Can someone help me model a horn for a driver in my basement?
inlowsound.com , or how about something real: headphones? :-)

Regards,
Attached Images
File Type: png diyaudio_carpenter_Post_3066_18inch_TH.png (38.4 KB, 63 views)
__________________
Oliver

Last edited by tb46; 11th February 2013 at 02:36 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why could corner horn not be this simple? mashaffer Subwoofers 16 5th August 2014 07:55 AM
Eckhorn 18 Corner Horn Carl_Huff Multi-Way 7 6th October 2010 07:21 PM
Corner Horn tinitus Multi-Way 30 13th December 2006 11:10 PM
corner horn and writing table hm Subwoofers 12 29th December 2005 12:13 PM
1/4wave corner horn scan? mikee12345 Multi-Way 14 11th April 2003 12:46 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:31 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2