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Old 10th February 2013, 01:20 AM   #11
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Hey Everybody!

I'm almost reading and studying every day about this stuff!! I'll get there!

For testing and combining with different High End Monitors (which reach about 40Hz easily) I may have to go digital and active indeed! If that's the best, I 'll do it and just get 'modern'.

As I have access to Monacor directly, I guess I'll will build a big enclosure, based on their speakers first, with their amplifier Sam2. This will be a testcase for getting more and better afterwards (I could build an extra Satellite for it afterwards, to complete a system for popular music ...bad recordings played on a Super system always sound bad. That's the reason I always kept several pairs of speakers. Or as said before, it will serve for Surround). In the process I'll learn about building, bracing, stuffing and dampening, and experience if a big enclosure adds what I'm looking for (and don't find in compact subwoofers with a forced sound!).

Ideas are always welcome, but I probably have to do some more homework first, and get a more specific idea of what I want! Pretty shure is a large volume, a pair, 12", closed, active ...I will look into DSP!
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Old 10th February 2013, 06:29 AM   #12
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For HT, the SAM2 won't do.
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Old 11th February 2013, 12:26 AM   #13
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Hey Bart!

What would you think about this : I just red in Hobby Hifi about the Reckhorn A-404 Amplifier. It gets good critics and the price is not too high (I don't mind spending some money on Hifi, and building a speaker combination that doesn't sound good enough is not a terminal faillure ...you can always re-use the stuff in another combination or project! But I won't spend 500eu on a woofer, 1000eu on an amplifier ....maybe up to 1000eu per enclosure, all in!).

I gues I could develop enclosures which hold a Reckhorn 404, built in visible in the front (horizontally), (the Reckhorn is 43cm wide and 10cm high) ...but then I would need long signal cables from the Pre-Amplifier to the Reckhorn and back to the Power-Amps + the existing long speaker cables? Maybe better to keep the Reckhorns with the Pre-Amplifier (very short signalcable) and build a space for the Power-Amps (Monoblocs) in the Bass-enclosure (=long signalcable + very short speakercable).

What do you think about that :
1) The Reckhorn?
2) Is 1000eu per enclosure OK for good quality Hifi (or way too high or low)?
3) The arrangement of all the units?
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Old 11th February 2013, 04:51 PM   #14
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1) Doesn't look bad but you might need two of these, so I would say, have a look at a Beringer iNuke 1000DSP or a 3000DSP, you would spend less money and have a DSP controller, programmable from you computer.
2) Yes 1000€ per box should be OK for a DIY sub. You gave the example of 500€ on a woofer and 1000€ for the amp, I would reverse that and spend the larger part on the driver.
3) I prefer long speaker cables instead of long signal cables, less chance of noise pick-up along the way.
2,5mm▓ should be enough for what you need, sub frequency's need power leads, so you could play save and use 4mm▓, more then enough!

Oh one more thing, since you're not aiming for <25hz, like HT 'demands', a good woofer might not be that expensive, so another benefit to your goal.
I bought two Monacor SPH450TC's a while back (18" woofers)
If you like I can sim a BR and a sealed box for 27,5hz and up or whatever freq you like.
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Last edited by ▀art West-VL.; 11th February 2013 at 04:56 PM. Reason: added comment
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Old 26th February 2013, 07:22 PM   #15
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Hey guys!

I have been reading a lot about building speakers (all the Mathematics)...also took a look at Behringer, Monacor and Rane external DSP Crossovers, Equalizers, Speaker Management Modules, Programable Hypex mono and stereo modules.

...so now I know much less then before!!! Or I should say : too many possibilities!

So as I'm a complete novice in building, I decided to go easy : it will be 2 huge closed enclosures (120-200 liters each, about 115x40x 60cm, not rectangular and few parallel sides, against standing waves), with 2 x 12" drivers in each speaker(I guess parallel) and driven by 2 pretty normal Plate amps or by 2 external Reckhorn amps A-406 (gets good tests and seems to adjust the compacts and basses fine). It will be just for Hifi.

Can anyone tell me how I choose the drivers ? I can look at all the drivers and start calculating, but is there a way to do a PRESELECTION :

What I mean is : what KIND of driver do I need, given
120-200 liters
closed
2 x 12" drivers in an enclosure, I guess parallel is ok ?)
I want a deep clean bass (I may play very loud, but not all the time)
I'll brace the cabinets very well
I can get Monacor, Peerless, Vifa, Scan Speak, Seas, Eton, Morel, P-Audio and SB Acoustics, and I'm willing to spend up to 300 euro (about 375$?) per driver.

Thanks!
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Old 27th February 2013, 06:51 AM   #16
SpirosZ is offline SpirosZ  Greece
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Will you use them as subs (<100Hz) or as woofers?
What use? Music? Home theater?
I am not familiar with the Reckhorn amplifier but it looks like a competitor to the Behringer iNuke 1000DSP.
How does it compare?
The Behringer seems to be more powerful, has build in fully adjustable High & Low pass filters and digital equalizer. With a pair of those you can drive both the subs and the main speakers and have total control over them.

Also it seems that you plan to build those boxes because you have a specific place for them in mind. However low frequency room modes may need experimentation with the sub position to avoid nulls and peaks at listening position. Sometimes just a small position change forward or backward can make a big difference. I would opt for an enclosure that allows me some movement.

Among the brands you listed Peerless XXLS12 is a safe bet (and will work fine with a relatively small enclosure) but I am sure that there are other good options as well.
If you play very loud you may want to look at 15" or 18" options as well.
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Old 1st March 2013, 06:59 PM   #17
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Hey SpirosZ!

Well, as the compacts I refer to (Monitor Audio Studio 2 an 6 / Spendor / Dynaudio/ ..there were more, there will be more!) go down deep to 40-45 Hz, and sound very, very well, I just want to add more low (in a big room 7x8m), and let the compacts play only their beautifull Highs and Mids. So I want to have a variable crossover between 100 and 40 Hz.

The bas enclosures will only serve for Music / Hifi. With 120-200 liter I guess I can go very low (the amplifiers give the posibility to cut at 15-60 Hz Subsonic, Low Pass at 40-300 Hz and High pass at 40-400 Hz). There seems to be a lot of space to experiment there?

A closed enclosure with 2 drivers will probably be less dependant on the room than BR's? And they may go as deep as they can (without forcing for an extra Hz ...just what they can reach, stressless, easy going!).
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Old 2nd March 2013, 05:30 PM   #18
SpirosZ is offline SpirosZ  Greece
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Well, a sealed enclosure will be less efficient but more forgiving as well. I am a big fan of sealed subs but they need lots of power and probably some DSP work.
Twin 12s, one sitting on top of the other also helps with room modes so you are on the right track.
Do some modeling on WinISD and see which one suits the sealed box you are after.
Peerless XXLS12, Dayton 12"Titanic or Reference, Eminence Lab12, are some of the most popular choices and they have being used in some great commercial subs.
According to WinISD two 12" XXLS will need at least 200lts for a Qtc 0.77 (WinISD recommended 282lt), two Lab 12s will yield a little higher SPL and will go a little deeper on a 105lt box with a Qtc of 0.7. I don't have the T/S of the Dayton drivers but if I remember well they will also be fine in a not too big sealed enclosure.
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