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Old 23rd January 2013, 08:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
No, just my meat computer generated response curves .

I'd like to see sims, actual measurements, or direct comparisons if anyone has made them, but found none in my quick review of the MTH30 threads I came across.

Maybe Pasc could compare the MTH30 to the XOC1 TH18 or my Keystone and give us an idea of FR, sensitivity and output potential.
I think a fairer comparision would be "like for like", or, in other words, given the volume the MTH occupies, can better be done (output, low frequency extension and passband width).

My POC TH is a bit smaller and goes lower, but I'll bet $$$ to doughnuts that it's not as efficient. It was a compromise I was prepared to live with. I'd like to see what compromises were made in the MTH30's design.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 11:28 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
I made no claim that the MTH-30 is not suitable for DJ use.
Of course you're right, I misinterpreted your assertion that "other TH cabs" are suitable for DJ use" as an implication that the MTH-30 was not. My apologies; I really appreciate your input on this. I'm trying to make a good decision with limited knowledge based on the practical limitations that I'm willing to live with.

Quote:
Many DJ's use total garbage,
Agreed!

Quote:
the MTH-30 would be a distinct step up.
My statement that the MTH30 does not look like a particularly good TH design is based on comparing it to others that appear better in terms of output vs. size and frequency response.
I see.

Quote:
The Tham is Anders Martinsson's design, not mine.
Again, my apologies.

Quote:
The B&C drivers are well suited for TH use, you will find that though they appear to be less sensitive, they don't fold up like a cheap suit at high drive levels as lighter, more sensitive cones (Eminence 3015LF, etc.) do:

THAM15 - a compact 15" tapped horn
Also good to know. Like I say, I dislike paying twice a lot more than I dislike paying for the right thing.

Quote:
The SS15 is Jbel's design:
Single sheet TH challenge

Since my Keystone, the Xoc1 TH18, the Othhorn, and the Gjallerhorn are all larger than you want, I won't bother linking them.
Thanks for the links.

Quote:
This design is smaller than the Tham 15 or SS15, has more LF output, but less output above around 50 Hz Hz:

FREE SUB PLAN: Dual Lab12 (Front Loaded) by Welter Systems

It is about the size of a JBL SRX 718, but has more LF output, it goes deeper than a SRX 728. Using a pair of TC EPIC 12" instead of the Lab 12s, it would be very close to the same output as the 728 in less than half the size.

I have a pair of the WS 2x12" cabinets for sale unloaded if you are interested.

Art
I like the low extension and smooth sim response, but I wonder if it's a good trade off for me with the small alto TS10s. That said, they might work well for me, although the drivers cost more per cab. They look easy enough to build, in fact, easier than the TH horns, but, I don't like the geometry as much for my small sub. Nonetheless, I can't lie, I don't like any of the subs that I have now and those might be a better overall compromise.

I might be interested in your cabs just to save time. It's not like I don't have other diy projects to occupy my time. Could you PM me your price and zip code, and perhaps some pics?

tnx

Last edited by ghettosynth; 23rd January 2013 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 24th January 2013, 03:13 AM   #23
sebDIY is offline sebDIY  Belgium
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Quote:
the MTH-30 would be a distinct step up.
My statement that the MTH30 does not look like a particularly good TH design is based on comparing it to others that appear better in terms of output vs. size and frequency response.
Sorry but I don't agree with you,. Have you ever tried MTH-30? I don't think. I have four of them with LF12G301, and they sound great, clean, with a lot of level for its size.

MTH-30 is very popular in Europe, probably the most used 12" bass DIY speaker here. Search on freespeakerplans or speakerplans site, you will find infos.
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Old 24th January 2013, 10:10 AM   #24
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Default TH Mini

The Th mini uses a B&C 12PS100
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Old 24th January 2013, 11:47 AM   #25
PASC is offline PASC  Brazil
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Hi!
http://img5.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...89bbbc3b77.jpg
http://img8.uploadhouse.com/fileuplo...d8a25862ed.jpg
Compared 1:1 with THAM 15 and with db miniscoop12

1st miniscoop, 2nd MTH, 3rd THAM15.

Miniscoop is a professional product of a friend factory with 18 Sound OEM drivers.
In the THs we tried several local label drivers, 18 Sound drivers and B&C drivers.

We played playback good music, Bass guitar live, also eletronic music.

THs exam would be hear how the notes are coming live thru it from the bass guitar.

The driver that gives more SPL 40/60Hz region will not define the 80/100Hz region.
When you stack more boxes it will be worst for live jazz, live simphonic rock and that's why we pay so much attention to sound definition, when we would separate wheat from chaff.

Maybe I have not yet listened THAM 15 with the correct driver, but from 60 down...

I can buy 4 12CL76 for the cost of one blueship 18" to habbit TH18, or Keystone, and with my age, I prefer carry MTH30, one man lift box.

Regards,
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Old 24th January 2013, 05:36 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghettosynth View Post
Like I say, I dislike paying twice a lot more than I dislike paying for the right thing.

Thanks for the links.

I like the low extension and smooth sim response, but I wonder if it's a good trade off for me with the small alto TS10s.

I might be interested in your cabs just to save time. It's not like I don't have other diy projects to occupy my time. Could you PM me your price and zip code, and perhaps some pics?

tnx
If you look through the link threads, you will see the only pictures I currently have of the Welter Systems Lab 2x12".
You will also notice that the Hornresp simulation shows a peaky port response that is absent in the actual Smaart tests of the cabinets.
You can also see the direct comparison to the almost "industry standard" JBL SRX 728.

The trade off between real 30-40 Hz LF extension in a small box (The WS 2x12") and the chest thumping 60-100 response of the similar size tapped horns is one you need to decide on.

I'd sell the pair of used WS 2x12" cabinets each loaded with one Lab 12 for $700 plus shipping from 87505 (Santa Fe, NM) unloaded for $400. Shipping weight is around 80 lb with one driver, about 55 unloaded.

Art
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Old 24th January 2013, 08:53 PM   #27
tb46 is offline tb46  United States
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Hi,

I did a "quick and dirty" in Hornresp on the MTH30 (3 sections only), wonder how that compares to measurements?

Regards,
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MTH30_Input.jpg (34.8 KB, 216 views)
File Type: jpg MTH30_SPL.jpg (29.9 KB, 213 views)
File Type: jpg MTH30_Schematic.jpg (21.0 KB, 211 views)
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Old 24th January 2013, 09:00 PM   #28
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Just happened to stumble across this as a (somewhat) compact sub that gets down to 35hz or below........

Cubo Sub
(scroll down to see plan)
cubo sub - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1
Best sub
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Old 24th January 2013, 09:42 PM   #29
Xoc1 is offline Xoc1  United Kingdom
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The Cubo sub is compact but really wants a decent 18" driver.
There have been quite successful multiple builds of the Cubo 18 in the UK using the Precision Devices PD1850. The build is easy but best performance still relies on quality drivers and amps.
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Old 24th January 2013, 11:12 PM   #30
PASC is offline PASC  Brazil
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Hi

Googling find a youtube video with 4 of them loaded with PD12SB30 played in room with audible recording eletronic music.
Will not show all of what it is capable but can give an idea how the sound comes out...

4 MTH-30 Tapped Horn Subwoofer - YouTube

Regards,
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