Huh. When testing my personal 95 db/w/m/2pi Dayton 15" HO project with a high quality stereo receiver that does a bit over 100w into 4 ohms, I was easily able to hard clip the amp when running test tones. Good thing I have an amp that will do 1500w RMS both channels driven into 4 ohms.
IMHO, digital power is cheap and of extremely high quality these days. I have friends running an NU3000DSP in a rec-room setup with installed wiring and some vintage klipsch's, it's amazing how well it drives the load and how clean and musical it sounds. You would never think this was a digital amp. For subs it is extremely accurate.
These days there is no good reason to under power subs.. PA guys recommend an amp with an RMS rating double that of the speaker being used. For the project I presented here, the sub is well over x-max at clipping when used in a big, low tuned box.
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turbodawg:
I guess we have a difference of opinion then.
Completely agree with those PA guys you mention, I normally add +3db to the max power rating as well, to better handle impedance variations + a tiny bit extra. So I never expect to run the subs i make at more than 60W peak pr channel (run 2 subs). My subs get very favourable evaluations from audio interested visitors, no problem making hair, couch and clothing vibrate at listening position if that is the goal.
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If you have unlimited power you do not have to list the minimum required db spec, but you will eventually run out of cooling or begin having issues with heat/air speed/compression/turbulence when using small boxes. It's a free world, we all make different sacrifices.
I guess we have a difference of opinion then.
Completely agree with those PA guys you mention, I normally add +3db to the max power rating as well, to better handle impedance variations + a tiny bit extra. So I never expect to run the subs i make at more than 60W peak pr channel (run 2 subs). My subs get very favourable evaluations from audio interested visitors, no problem making hair, couch and clothing vibrate at listening position if that is the goal.
Edit:
If you have unlimited power you do not have to list the minimum required db spec, but you will eventually run out of cooling or begin having issues with heat/air speed/compression/turbulence when using small boxes. It's a free world, we all make different sacrifices.
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Hope you accept also small IB design, there is no physical box so it will go to specs. 
Needed back space is just 2-5m2.
two
Dayton Audio IB385-8 15" Infinite Baffle Subwoofer 295-455
and
Dayton Audio SA100 100W Subwoofer Amplifier 300-802
$349 total without shipping, so there should be enough left for shipping and even to manifold material.
Not us in Europe though, maybe $700-1000 would be total after shipping, few % customs and 23% taxes.
Needed back space is just 2-5m2.
two
Dayton Audio IB385-8 15" Infinite Baffle Subwoofer 295-455
and
Dayton Audio SA100 100W Subwoofer Amplifier 300-802
$349 total without shipping, so there should be enough left for shipping and even to manifold material.
Not us in Europe though, maybe $700-1000 would be total after shipping, few % customs and 23% taxes.
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I have real life project going on and it can be made to match the competition criteria.
PE sells Dayton DCS380-4 at discount 89,97$ each, take 2 - 180$
PE sells Yung 200W plateamp with boost - 89$
2 sheets of 21mm spruce plywood, glue, saw, screws est. 230$
Total material cost 500$
in Europe it's more than that in € (+cargo always)
The box - appr. 470 liter closed, inner bracing. Yes, you can call that big, but I made 2x235L boxes
Drivers in serial connection
Q= 0,7
Xmax reached at 120W power at 20Hz
spl 103dB@20Hz or 112dB@50Hz according to Unibox
my project http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/223960-bench-style-cabinet-subwoofer-2x15-closed.html
My costs for the bench sub is roughly 1000€
In the attached graph there is a smaller box, but it measures the same as 470L
PE sells Dayton DCS380-4 at discount 89,97$ each, take 2 - 180$
PE sells Yung 200W plateamp with boost - 89$
2 sheets of 21mm spruce plywood, glue, saw, screws est. 230$
Total material cost 500$
in Europe it's more than that in € (+cargo always)
The box - appr. 470 liter closed, inner bracing. Yes, you can call that big, but I made 2x235L boxes
Drivers in serial connection
Q= 0,7
Xmax reached at 120W power at 20Hz
spl 103dB@20Hz or 112dB@50Hz according to Unibox
my project http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/223960-bench-style-cabinet-subwoofer-2x15-closed.html
My costs for the bench sub is roughly 1000€
In the attached graph there is a smaller box, but it measures the same as 470L
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Turbodawg,
The Dayton 15" HO is only 87 dB one watt one meter at around 100 Hz in half space, and with a 35 Hz tuning in a small box drops in level at lower frequencies from there.
Where are you getting the extra 8 dB sensitivity from?
Art
The very agressively tuned port and the quoted parameters siming different than the quoted sensitivity.
I am quoting the sensitivity peak at 40-50hz, it's at about -3db @ 34hz and -4 db @ 100hz, off the top of my head.
Using the Dayton Reference 15 in a simulation of about 90L net (20x22x16 using 3/4") 2 volt with a 35 Hz Fb does show 95 dB at 60Hz, 91.96 at 40Hz, but only 89.34 at 35 Hz. At 30 Hz it shows 85 dB.
Hornresp is very useful, but it often shows peaks larger than reality, and drooping upper response (or more LF response) than real measurements.
Comparing the real measurement of my Lab 2x12" to the sim, the sim shows the response at 40 Hz to be some 10 dB higher than 500 Hz, while it is actually 2 dB less.
I built the Lab 2x12" before using Hornresp, that peaky port "boom" Hornresp predicts would have scared me off.
If the same holds true for your Dayton Reference 15 in a 20x22x16 35Fb box, it may be closer to 87 dB than 95 dB sensitivity.
Without actual measurement, we won't know what the reality is, but having done the sims myself I know why you think your cabinet may be 95 dB one watt one meter.
Art
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All I'm doing is stating my horn resp sim figures, as many other people have done for other projects, as a point of comparison. I have also simmed in WinISD and response is much less peaky. But the peak is right where you want it for a house curve and overall grunt.
I stand by my figures. In WinISD the peak is about 45hz with -3db @ 35hz and 100hz. Hornresp 95 db/2v/1m/2pi @ 40-50hz.
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You can stand by your simulations, I'll stand by my measurements
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You can stand by your simulations, I'll stand by my measurements
There are plenty of designs on here that have been simmed but never formally measured. If I ever buy the proper equipment I'll be sure to do it.
Can you post a screen capture of the figures you used in HornResp to sim your design please?
Bump. Sorry no plots yet.
This woofer has been discussed in other threads, but thought it would be worthwhile to mention it here:
Infinity Reference 1262w - $56.45 shipped
Amazon.com: Infinity Reference 1262w 12-Inch 1200-Watt High-Performance Subwoofer (Dual Voice Coil): Car Electronics
Since they are DVC, they can be setup as 2 ohms. This means that you could run a stereo pair of them off an NU1000DSP ($256) and get nominally 380 wrms per channel. Build them sealed or ported, not sure how they do in a horn. Would be a very nice setup if you want stereo subs or need multiple subs for room correction. I make no claims about their output, but they are spec'ed at xmax 13mm, Sd 531 cm3, 300 wrms rated power.
They also offer a single voice coil version for ~$50. There are JBL car audio woofers that are a bit more expensive but pretty similar.
This woofer has been discussed in other threads, but thought it would be worthwhile to mention it here:
Infinity Reference 1262w - $56.45 shipped
Amazon.com: Infinity Reference 1262w 12-Inch 1200-Watt High-Performance Subwoofer (Dual Voice Coil): Car Electronics
Since they are DVC, they can be setup as 2 ohms. This means that you could run a stereo pair of them off an NU1000DSP ($256) and get nominally 380 wrms per channel. Build them sealed or ported, not sure how they do in a horn. Would be a very nice setup if you want stereo subs or need multiple subs for room correction. I make no claims about their output, but they are spec'ed at xmax 13mm, Sd 531 cm3, 300 wrms rated power.
They also offer a single voice coil version for ~$50. There are JBL car audio woofers that are a bit more expensive but pretty similar.
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I agree; at least the REF1260W model has very versatile T/S -parameters and is a very affordable woofer. A while ago I seriously contemplated getting either two or four of these and using them in a large sealed enclosure.
I attached a datasheet of this driver.
Code:
VAS (LITERS) . . . . . 82.96
Q MS . . . . . . . . . 6.99
Q ES . . . . . . . . . 0.41
Q TS . . . . . .. . . 0.39
FS (HZ) . . . . . . . 23.50
X MAX (MM) . . . . . . 13.00
S D (M2) . . . . . . . 531.00
B L (TM) . . . .. . . 16.90
R EVC (OHMS) .. .. . . 3.59I suggested the discontinued version of the 1262, the 1250, very early in this thread. You could build two subs powered by a stereo amp with built in filters and come in close to $500. I'm using a driver that models almost identically, MB Quart PWH302, in a sealed 4^ft cab with very satisfying results. I think a pair would sound incredible.
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I was going to buy them but ended up with JL W3v3 sub
These 1262 have been mentioned on this thread several times. Do these sound really good?
I guess car subs are designed to use small enclosure volume. Doing so.. they may compromise on either sensitivity or low freq extension. Its the LAW
With a 500$ budget i would spend way more than $50 on sub
Has any one looked at these amps ? Cheep and powerful enough to compete
600 watt Class D amp from parts express $100
1x600W TAS5630 Class-D Amplifier Board 320-311
power supply 130$
48 VDC 12.5A 600W Regulated Power Supply 320-317
"I'd appreciate if some Europeans could make a similar setup for about 370 euro; (the equivalent of 500$) with shipping inside the European Union."
That's a tough task! The sales prices are so much higher here compared to PE and Madisound. And the sellers don't have so many "special offers"
My Dayton DCS380-4 are 90$ at PE but around 115€ in Europe. However it is cheaper to purchase them from inside EU because cargo of big items and taxes from USA are so high.
That's a tough task! The sales prices are so much higher here compared to PE and Madisound. And the sellers don't have so many "special offers"
My Dayton DCS380-4 are 90$ at PE but around 115€ in Europe. However it is cheaper to purchase them from inside EU because cargo of big items and taxes from USA are so high.
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That 600w amp requires DC power supply, and is rated at 10%THD for the 600w. I'd stay away from that as opposed to a decent plate amp that is meant to run on 120vac, will have just as much power and built in EQ capabilities for just slightly more (than the amp/power supply combo you posted)
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