pioneer ts-w5102spl

pulinsh · 2013-01-06 11:51 am

Good day everyone,
I have ts-w5102spl and two prs-d2000spl amps, I was wondering about my subwoofer possibilities. I had old box - it was vented but smth was very very wrong... so I will try to build new one, can anyone help me with this?

pacificblue · 2013-01-06 7:23 pm

The website recommends a 42,5 l closed box. For the price of that woofer you should expect some support from the manufacturer or the dealer where you bought it.

pulinsh · 2013-01-06 7:40 pm

that closed box is crap (sorry for expression) I was planning for 83.7L box with round port 153mm(diam)x200mm(length). Just wondering can anyone help me with some other suggestion for better box to get more db

Inductor · 2013-01-07 4:06 am

pacificblue said:
The website recommends a 42,5 l closed box. For the price of that woofer you should expect some support from the manufacturer or the dealer where you bought it.

Here it says ported. Pioneer Premier TS-W5102SPL (TSW5102SPL) 12" Dual 2 ohm SPL Sub
Sorry I can not work without the T/S parameters.

Inductor · 2013-01-07 4:44 am

More data for your woofer in a BR.
PIONEER TS-W5102SPL, VB = 15.8 L, FB = 27.7 Hz, 87.9 dB2.83Vm.
F3=41Hz, F6=31Hz, F12=22Hz (free field)

GM · 2013-01-07 5:19 am

Your sim doesn't account for its huge inductance, so not even remotely accurate without significant EQ. This driver is a 'one note wonder' with specs that dictate TL loading.

GM

GM · 2013-01-07 5:35 am

pulinsh said:
I was planning for 83.7L box with round port 153mm(diam)x200mm(length).

Really?! See yellow trace. Is this for a car SPL competition or.........?

GM

Richard Ellis · 2013-01-07 6:11 am

I'd guess what 'GM' is trying to tell you is that..........These car specific subwoofers perform rather poorly.....they really don't go down very low in frequency without lots of equalization & lots of Wattage. When they do get that low, they have lots of harmonics (Different frequencies added to the primary frequency) & sound odd.
These drivers are designed solely for volume & do not accurately reproduce the low frequencies.........as a result, attempts at modeling "accurately" sized boxes brings about bizzare results (Very small sealed boxes).
I'm sure they will pound away just fine with the small sealed enclosure.....just don't expect precise low tones.
I've built a "precision" subwoofer & it was an "accurate" device........Just awhile ago I helped my brother-in-law build the requisite sub-woofer enclosure for his car...according to specs, a small enclosure, High-wattage affair.........Frankly it sounded very poor...but he likes it (Boom, boom,boom). It uses a driver similar to yours.

________________________________________________________Rick........

pulinsh · 2013-01-07 7:22 am

thanks everyone for answers, I don't want it for competition, just for myself to get not only noise but some lower tones too. So I think the best way is to sell this one or maybe something can done to make it better?

Inductor · 2013-01-07 11:54 pm

pulinsh said:
thanks everyone for answers, I don't want it for competition, just for myself to get not only noise but some lower tones too. So I think the best way is to sell this one or maybe something can done to make it better?

If you don't plan using a 2500W power amp, yes. A 6" or 8" can do what you're looking for...
Edit: if for a car the low gain/curve it's different.
Look for what I have just said here.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/227192-10-cabinet-transformation.html#post3315609

GM · 2013-01-08 2:18 am

Richard Ellis said:
I'd guess what 'GM' is trying to tell you is that..........These car specific subwoofers perform rather poorly.....

Well…….yes and no, the high inductance severely limits it for sealed and typical vented alignments, hence a ‘one note wonder’, but I did note it’s suitable for a TL, which by association includes the MLTL and tapped TL/horn.

Anyway, ‘ran the numbers' for an offset driver MLTL tuned to Fs, which shows plenty of gain, but the driver is so deep I don’t believe it will perform as predicted, so will try some different alignments as time permits.

GM

pulinsh · 2013-01-08 7:11 am

Inductor said:
If you don't plan using a 2500W power amp, yes. A 6" or 8" can do what you're looking for...
Edit: if for a car the low gain/curve it's different.
Look for what I have just said here.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/227192-10-cabinet-transformation.html#post3315609

well I will use both pioneer d2000 to get as high performance as I can around 2500w. Just I have never made spl box and have no experience with that.

Inductor · 2013-01-09 1:09 am

pulinsh,
Hi again, and I have to admit I don't know what a "spl box" is. It's that somewhat related to car Audio? I'm only used to very simple home sets.

pulinsh · 2013-01-09 7:06 am

Inductor said:
pulinsh,
Hi again, and I have to admit I don't know what a "spl box" is. It's that somewhat related to car Audio? I'm only used to very simple home sets.

Hi, yes - that is funny ... laugh at new guy ...

ok I will say it simple - help me build box that can give me more than 145 db ... I know about car salon compression measuring and electricity requierments ... but I need help with that box...

GM · 2013-01-09 3:45 pm

Hmm, You led us to believe you wanted a sub suitable for music, HT, but you don't need 145 dB except for a 'one note' competition SPL box.

Regardless, you'll either need a lot of speakers and/or a huge horn to hit 145 dB/m if you want it to cover a wider BW than ~one frequency, so of course even more with increasing distance to the listening position. If the room is a vehicle, I suggest you seek out a forum that specializes in this type of speaker system design.

GM

Inductor · 2013-01-09 4:50 pm

I don't know what you need (I'm not used to car stereos) but as a suggestion (noise vs audio) I would go read about sub literature and testing like the π subwoofers. Notice what Wayne Parham says

However, the output of a hornsub is significantly higher than a direct radiator, so for larger venues or outdoors, the 12Pi hornsub is ideal. It is large, but the coasters make it easy to load in and out trucks with ramps.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/187387-waynes-12pi-sub.html#post2610407
Pi Speaker Kits Subwoofer Kits
ProSpeakers Forum - ? Speakers 12? v1 - Wayne Parham, October 21, 2007 at 14:56:15
Pi Speakers - Push/Pull Basshorn Subs

pulinsh · 2013-01-09 8:24 pm

well I've buils quite good speaker system, now just need to upgrade that sub - I was thinking about spl, to have some fun, because standart box I had - and it wasn't bad, but I want to try smth else... so I have to try spl... I don't know any other forum that can help me with this thing - as I read some discussions and looked at some pictures first idea was that these guys can build anything ... and sorry for my english - this language isn't my first.
Just looking for some information to start building correctly

GM · 2013-01-10 3:13 am

OK, I increased the size of the one fold cab I simmed earlier to allow for this driver’s depth and the simmed response actually looks a bit better overall, but it’s pretty big at ~48” high x ~14.25” wide x ~33.75” deep assuming ¾” [19 mm] thick panels.

Ignoring any room boundary gain, at a glance it looks like it can handle ~1500 W before exceeding Xmax, so should be able to ‘rock your world’ a little.

Anyway, internal dimensions [unfolded] and approximate:

93” high
12.75” wide
15.75” deep
[2] 6” diameter vents x 5” long
driver down from top 29.5”
vents up from bottom 18.5”

The sim has very little damping, so can be smoothed out considerably more if it sounds too ‘loose’ in room. You may also want to experiment with different length vents.

GM

pulinsh · 2013-01-10 8:47 am

GM said:
OK, I increased the size of the one fold cab I simmed earlier to allow for this driver’s depth and the simmed response actually looks a bit better overall, but it’s pretty big at ~48” high x ~14.25” wide x ~33.75” deep assuming ¾” [19 mm] thick panels.

Ignoring any room boundary gain, at a glance it looks like it can handle ~1500 W before exceeding Xmax, so should be able to ‘rock your world’ a little.

Anyway, internal dimensions [unfolded] and approximate:

93” high
12.75” wide
15.75” deep
[2] 6” diameter vents x 5” long
driver down from top 29.5”
vents up from bottom 18.5”

The sim has very little damping, so can be smoothed out considerably more if it sounds too ‘loose’ in room. You may also want to experiment with different length vents.

GM

thanks you very much - but that is too big ... I can't fit that in my car

GM · 2013-01-10 4:30 pm

Hmm, nowhere do I see where you said, or even implied, it was for a vehicle.

GM

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