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Old 13th December 2012, 06:27 AM   #31
Djim is offline Djim  Netherlands
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Hi guys,

Maybe Omnifex means something different than screen resolution. Maybe he refers to the difference between real live measurement and the ideal world of sims. Models don't suffer from losses, abnormalities or deviations, such as; boundary effects, fluctuations in driver parameters and material characteristics, absorption, panel flexing and so on and on....That means the read out looks like smoothed out, since it is 'perfect'.

Real live measurements measure all the small differences in values, including that of influences of the environmental circumstances and errors of the measuring system (mic, converters and so on), the losses and deviations that all give the read out (in high resolution and without smoothing) a peaky read out that isnít anywhere as 'perfect' like in the ideal simming world...

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Last edited by Djim; 13th December 2012 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 13th December 2012, 08:34 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David McBean View Post
...The original Hornresp program was written before Messrs Thiele and Small came up with their filter-based parameters anyway :-). ...
Neville Thiele passed away at the beginning of October. He was 92.
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Old 13th December 2012, 02:51 PM   #33
epa is offline epa  Netherlands
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hi jim
i was thinking the same.
Quote:
Neville Thiele passed away at the beginning of October. He was 92.
r.i.p.
his work lives on.
92 jrs old ,where can i sign for that
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Old 13th December 2012, 02:59 PM   #34
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djim View Post
Hi guys,

Maybe Omnifex means something different than screen resolution. Maybe he refers to the difference between real live measurement and the ideal world of sims. Models don't suffer from losses, abnormalities or deviations, such as; boundary effects, fluctuations in driver parameters and material characteristics, absorption, panel flexing and so on and on....That means the read out looks like smoothed out, since it is 'perfect'.

Real live measurements measure all the small differences in values, including that of influences of the environmental circumstances and errors of the measuring system (mic, converters and so on), the losses and deviations that all give the read out (in high resolution and without smoothing) a peaky read out that isn’t anywhere as 'perfect' like in the ideal simming world...

Click the image to open in full size.
Exactly.

It is those imperfections that many in the pro audio world wants to see so they know exactly what to expect to apply equalisation if or when necessary.
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Last edited by OMNIFEX; 13th December 2012 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 13th December 2012, 03:49 PM   #35
epa is offline epa  Netherlands
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thats imposible to simulate ,like jim says,there are so many variable.
even between the same speakers there are deviations.
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Old 13th December 2012, 04:17 PM   #36
schmeet is offline schmeet  United Kingdom
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Anyone who is trying to EQ out 0.1dB fluctations in a speakers frequency response is, quite frankly, deluded.

IMO fluctuations up to around 3dB aren't worth bothering with. The microphone that recorded the music, your room and your ear will all be far more influential than these small fluctuations.

The latest (waveguide based) modelling software packages (HornResp, MJK etc.) provide more than enough detail IMHO.
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Old 13th December 2012, 05:11 PM   #37
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epa View Post
thats imposible to simulate ,like jim says,there are so many variable.
even between the same speakers there are deviations.
Absolutely. Which is why I was asking what is the FFT resolution of Horn Response graph. This will enable me to match the resolution of horn response graph to my measurement software FFT graph so I can make a fair comparison amongst the two.

I'm hearing many saying this and that and could not tell me the FFT resolution Horn's response graph.


Quote:
Originally Posted by David McBean View Post
Hi Don,

You understand correctly. To hopefully make things a bit clearer for everyone, I have attached a list of the frequencies used by Hornresp on my computer, over the range 10 Hz to 100 Hz. A full list up to 20000 Hz can be obtained by exporting the chart results data.

I saw no reason for Hornresp to have more frequency points for charting purposes than could be displayed on the monitor screen. It is of course possible to calculated the results at other specific frequencies if desired, using the Sample tool.

Kind regards,

David
Cheers David!

Your attached text is exactly what I was inquiring about so, I can match the resolution of Horn Response to my measurement software in order to make a fair comparison.
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Last edited by OMNIFEX; 13th December 2012 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 13th December 2012, 05:50 PM   #38
Djim is offline Djim  Netherlands
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Hi Omnifex,

These variations are the result of unstable parameters, which means they vary each time you measure. When you measure the same cab multiple times, under the same conditions and take the average of all these measurements, the outcome will be much smoother.
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Old 13th December 2012, 09:34 PM   #39
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Omnifex,
Can you please clarify one point? Are you comparing Hornresp to the simulation results of Eminence Designer, or are you comparing Hornresp to FFT analysis of the results of measuring physical speakers?
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Old 14th December 2012, 03:02 PM   #40
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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What I am planning to do is compare the results of Horn Response to the measured results of the software analyser I am using to measure the frequency curve of the sub. In order to make a fair comparison, I wanted the FFT resolution of Horn Response so I can match the resolution of the software analyser to Horn Response’s FFT resolution.

I am not expecting the end results to match perfectly. I will be determining how close Horn Response’s simulated curve is to the software analyser’s curve. As I am already familiar on how close Eminence Designer matches the curve of my designs, if Horn Response’s curve is closer to the software analyser’s curve, it will tell me Horn Response offers a higher percentage on matching the measured results of the software analyser than Eminence Designer.

As I have contacted Harris tech (The developer of Eminence Designer) over a decade ago to confirm if the measured results in Eminence Designer from 100 Hz downwards is based on half space, 1 metre, I would imagine Horn Response is basing its results from 100 Hz downwards @ 1 metre half space as well.

So it is a matter of placing the microphone 1 metre away from the sub while, having the sub away from any boundaries to ensure it is half space, to make a fair comparison.

Cheers!
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Last edited by OMNIFEX; 14th December 2012 at 03:06 PM.
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