Advice wanted -> DIY Live Sound Sub

[vhayduk]

Looking for some input from the subwoofer gurus on my next project.

I'm building a small(ish) rig for my own use for live sound. Here is a little background info

- Small/medium rooms (bars/small clubs/community halls/banquet facilities) -- often with nasty acoustics. Only 1% chance of corner loading a sub
- All kinds of music
- Quality over quantity. Good loud; not stupid loud
- 1 or 2 subs. No more than 2. Don't need to be used in multiples or augment another system. I have access to a big system for big venues.
- Reasonable in size; super small is not a requirement, however full size LAB is too big.
- Needs to cover 30 - 100 hz (give or take a bit on both ends)
- Will be run with a full DSP

I'm experienced in both install and portable live sound and have used lots of pro gear from various manufactures. This system is born out of a desire to assemble a rig that can satisfy my ears on a regular basis in small venues with bad acoustics. My ears are hard to please

Tops will be a custom designed box with field-adjustable horizontal dispersion (80 to 140 degree) and narrow (~20 degree) vertical dispersion. Purposely designed for rooms with people very close to the stage while still providing decent throw where needed. Narrow vertical dispersion is to minimize reflections off of low ceilings / beams / hard floors etc. Each top (2 total) consists of 2 x 1.4" compression drivers on line array waveguides with 8 x 6.5" drivers in a line-array configuration for mids. System will be run 3-way active.

Looking forward to some creative suggestions!

Vince

[epa]

will the 6.5" drivers extend to 100 hz?
if you have enough amp power you could simply go for a double 18" bassreflex
or you could bild a taped horn 400~to 600 ltrs
there are varius th"s found on this forum.
keystone,xco1 -118 and many more.
or you can design one yourself with the help of the diy community.

[weltersys]

Originally Posted by vhayduk

- Quality over quantity. Good loud; not stupid loud
- 1 or 2 subs. No more than 2. Don't need to be used in multiples or augment another system. I have access to a big system for big venues.
- Reasonable in size; super small is not a requirement, however full size LAB is too big.
- Needs to cover 30 - 100 hz (give or take a bit on both ends)
- Will be run with a full DSP

Each top (2 total) consists of 2 x 1.4" compression drivers on line array waveguides with 8 x 6.5" drivers in a line-array configuration for mids. System will be run 3-way active.

Looking forward to some creative suggestions!

Vince

Vince,

A pair of these would probably do it:
FREE SUB PLAN: Dual Lab12 (Front Loaded) by Welter Systems

If you like more bottom, this will do at twice the size (still half the size of Labhorns:
Keystone Sub Using 18,15,&12 Inch Speakers

I am using a pair of Keystones with 28 eight inch speakers and 10 DH1AMT 3" diaphragm 1.4" exit drivers above.

Art

[more10]

If you are going to build, or have someone build, JBL 2226 ported something I built from srx boxes. There is one Eighteen Sound and one Faital Pro that can be used instead of the JBL. Trapezoid shape is not essential. It is about 200 liters. With wheels you can handle it self, without you need help.

Tapped horns are difficult to integrate. Ported box is simpler.

[Forsman]

Maybe THAM 15?

/mvhff

[vhayduk]

Thanks for the input. Some useful suggestions.

epa

will the 6.5" drivers extend to 100 hz?

Yes. I'm not using sealed-back line array drivers.

if you have enough amp power you could simply go for a double 18" bassreflex

I'm not a fan of 18" BR boxes. Too floppy/mushy at lower volumes. They have their place but I don't like them in smaller rooms.

or you could bild a taped horn 400~to 600 ltrs

hmmm

or you can design one yourself with the help of the diy community.

Thinking about that right now...

weltersys

A pair of these would probably do it:
FREE SUB PLAN: Dual Lab12 (Front Loaded) by Welter Systems

Very interesting. I haven't seen that thread before. Would a moderate volume increase benefit this design? Say ~25%? The reason I ask is it might work well for me to adapt this into an "L" shape design with the drivers in line rather than staggered. I'll make up a sketch for you to critique.

If you like more bottom, this will do at twice the size (still half the size of Labhorns:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwo...-speakers.html

Look very interesting but totally the wrong shape for me. I need something that fires out the side so I can lay it down infront of low stages if needed.

more10

If you are going to build, or have someone build, JBL 2226 ported something I built from srx boxes. There is one Eighteen Sound and one Faital Pro that can be used instead of the JBL. Trapezoid shape is not essential. It is about 200 liters. With wheels you can handle it self, without you need help.

Interesting as well. I'd obviously go with a different box shape as I don't have any srx boxes, but interesting none the less.

Tapped horns are difficult to integrate. Ported box is simpler.

Can you expand on this? Are you saying physically? Acoustically?

Forsman

Maybe THAM 15?

Not much info on this one? Will do some more searches and look into it more.

The one that has really grabbed by attention is the Dual Lab 12. Still reading

Thanks!

Vince

[turbodawg]

Ultra compact ported 15" Dayton Ref HO

[kctess5]

The C/E/X FT30 could work for you. It is quite the subwoofer. I almost built that but then I decided to use the TH18 instead for higher sensitivity at the expense of depth extension.

But really unless you are playing a lot of dubstep 45Hz is all you need.

C/E/X PA Flat to 30 (FT30) PA TH Awesomeness

If 33-35 Hz extension flat is enough then that might be a very good choice.

Good luck!

[mikeford]

First off I would stop doing nasty rooms, life is too short.

Second worry less about how low it goes, and more about flexibility in setup and moving it.

I like things that scale, if you standardize on boxes that have some flexibility in arrangement and combination, like an 18 or dual 15 ported box that can be stacked in pairs or quads.

The fancy horn arrangements are nice, but can weigh a LOT compared to simple direct radiator in a ported box. Don't forget you get paid for the perception of what your system does, so 4 cheap 18's in ported boxes may "look" bigger and louder than a smaller and louder horn system.

Pattern may outweigh other factors when stuck in a bad room, pattern and eq.

[m R g S r]

Originally Posted by mikeford

Don't forget you get paid for the perception of what your system does, so 4 cheap 18's in ported boxes may "look" bigger and louder than a smaller and louder horn system.

Pattern may outweigh other factors when stuck in a bad room, pattern and eq.

Did you read the first post! He said its for his own use, wants to please his ears, not get paid for a worse sounding setup...