PiSpeakers Forum - 12 ? observations and comparisons with other designs - Wayne Parham, July 08, 2005 at 03:53:47
and look like you can get the plans
http://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=17928&start=0&
and look like you can get the plans
http://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=17928&start=0&
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eh, I doubt they couple as well as the simulation says.
And the corner loading, that better be 3 walls of concrete also.
Bass will blast right through walls otherwise (lose another 3db or more below 100hz).
Take the kf940.
It is a double 12" bass horn made by EAW.
32" x 36" x 52" at 300lbs each.
It has a 13' long mouth with maybe 6ft2 mouth area.
Notice it couples well at 200hz, but hardly at all at 25hz.
This is off of THEIR spec sheets, not someone else's tests.
EAW: KF940
But you can add eq (see their literature).
And 4 dual 12 bass horns can take 12db of boost at 30hz better than 1 dual 12" box.
I wouldn't ever build a sub-horn.
For the same area, you can get a bunch of 15's and add eq.
But I would build a bass horn on concrete floor (4-6ft2 mouth) and run it 100hz - 750hz if it could get up that high.
I like the tactile feel of bass.
I had a w-bin with 6-7ft2 of mouth.
I heard/felt no bass untill I was over 10' away.
And I was pounded listening down the hallway.
Pounded, not rumbled (not much below 100hz).
Bass horns are a different animal.
And the corner loading, that better be 3 walls of concrete also.
Bass will blast right through walls otherwise (lose another 3db or more below 100hz).
Take the kf940.
It is a double 12" bass horn made by EAW.
32" x 36" x 52" at 300lbs each.
It has a 13' long mouth with maybe 6ft2 mouth area.
Notice it couples well at 200hz, but hardly at all at 25hz.
This is off of THEIR spec sheets, not someone else's tests.
EAW: KF940
But you can add eq (see their literature).
And 4 dual 12 bass horns can take 12db of boost at 30hz better than 1 dual 12" box.
I wouldn't ever build a sub-horn.
For the same area, you can get a bunch of 15's and add eq.
But I would build a bass horn on concrete floor (4-6ft2 mouth) and run it 100hz - 750hz if it could get up that high.
I like the tactile feel of bass.
I had a w-bin with 6-7ft2 of mouth.
I heard/felt no bass untill I was over 10' away.
And I was pounded listening down the hallway.
Pounded, not rumbled (not much below 100hz).
Bass horns are a different animal.
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TH are nice, but limited bandwidth (in my opinion).
You have to cross them a bit b4 they get those 5-10db spikes.
But many love their sheer output.
I've never built or heard one, but they look interesting.
I'd require one or 2 15's, and that would be a BIG box.
It's up to you what you want (how low, how loud, how big, how expensive).
You have to cross them a bit b4 they get those 5-10db spikes.
But many love their sheer output.
I've never built or heard one, but they look interesting.
I'd require one or 2 15's, and that would be a BIG box.
It's up to you what you want (how low, how loud, how big, how expensive).
i want to go budget
and to have small size for portability but maximize spl
yeah i know you cant break the laws of physics
size,spl,price
from the top 3 i can choose 2 only
and the third will suffer
if i choose small size and high spl,,, it will be pricey
if i choose low price and small size, spl suffer
do you have the links to those things and the talk
yeah the pi12 is scary
4 of those can shake the ground i think or can simulate a earthquake
i saw the flatpacks are at 900 bucks if my memory dont fail me
What is your intended use (music or HT, indoor or outdoor)?
price range?
needed SPL (realistically)+(100db is louder than people think)?
lowest usable frequency?
How big is your room?
What speakers will these support?
What crossover point are you going to use?
do you have room for more than one sub?
price range?
needed SPL (realistically)+(100db is louder than people think)?
lowest usable frequency?
How big is your room?
What speakers will these support?
What crossover point are you going to use?
do you have room for more than one sub?
djn wrote What is your intended use (music or HT, indoor or outdoor)? Indoor lounges and restaurants
price range? 200 max each ( i need one then add another later )
needed SPL (realistically)+(100db is louder than people think)? 100 ( +/- 6 )
lowest usable frequency? 30Hz
How big is your room? 60'x100' 40'x70'
What speakers will these support? ss15 ?
What crossover point are you going to use?dbx driverack
do you have room for more than one sub? yes
price range? 200 max each ( i need one then add another later )
needed SPL (realistically)+(100db is louder than people think)? 100 ( +/- 6 )
lowest usable frequency? 30Hz
How big is your room? 60'x100' 40'x70'
What speakers will these support? ss15 ?
What crossover point are you going to use?dbx driverack
do you have room for more than one sub? yes
maxo, all the info is on the Pi forum...... though it does take some digging to find, some of it is linked in the Pi paper you linked in your OP........
Mr. Parham is a decent guy, if you cant find the info, post a thread asking for such and he'll respond with enough info to keep you reading for an hour or two.
$900 for a flat pack seems reasonable to me, they are cnc'd to ensure accuracy - there's pictures of a build iirc.
I also seem to remember that the design is tightly designed for his modified driver, I forget the price.
Not a 'budget' build by a long shot.
Mr. Parham is a decent guy, if you cant find the info, post a thread asking for such and he'll respond with enough info to keep you reading for an hour or two.
$900 for a flat pack seems reasonable to me, they are cnc'd to ensure accuracy - there's pictures of a build iirc.
I also seem to remember that the design is tightly designed for his modified driver, I forget the price.
Not a 'budget' build by a long shot.
thanks for the info man
well, as i asked on my 1st post i just want to know what you guys think of those designs because look hybrid also they use coil COOLING that i have never saw before but read on the pi site and saw that they tested 2 cabs
one with cooling and the other no cooling
on real world outdoor scenario
the one with no cooling overheats and died
personally i need something budget and small
i posted the info on my post above
You SPL requirement is pretty tame.
What genre of music is this to cover?
You plan on using this with the SS15 subs?
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Are these going to be portable or fixed installations? What are the SS15?
If they are in one end of a 100' long room, getting 100db at the other end will require more than 100db at the sub.....but I don't know how much more.
200 bucks is not a lot to spend but if you have the amps and Rackdrive already and can build the cabs yourself, you can make it work for 200.
I would look at a folded Tapped sub. The Pi12 is way out of your price range if you need to buy their flat pack.
If they are in one end of a 100' long room, getting 100db at the other end will require more than 100db at the sub.....but I don't know how much more.
200 bucks is not a lot to spend but if you have the amps and Rackdrive already and can build the cabs yourself, you can make it work for 200.
I would look at a folded Tapped sub. The Pi12 is way out of your price range if you need to buy their flat pack.
duo or trio band
keyboards , drum machine, bass
3 vocals
soft ballad and instrumental generes
but also when not on lounges or restaurants i get home gigs
when i will need to play pre recorded music
house, tecno, trance, and some dubstep
so i dont want to get a wimpy sub that cant take more abuse
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