Dayton DCS380-4 Dayton Audio DCS380-4 15" Classic Subwoofer 4 Ohm 295-470 Connected in series to make 8R and push-pull.
The inner dimensions of final boxes are 38x62x100 cm (235L) Q=0,7 I'll put some polystester wool inside to kill standing waves I'll connect the two mirror-imaged closed volumes wit a piece of ¤45mm PVC pipe. The boxes are not fixed to each other yet so I can change the width of the slot and the filling of plenums bottom.
Norman, how is your PPSL working?
I have ordered the drivers, I'll get them in early January. Intertechnik had them in stock and cargo is only 15€ (I love EU)
https://www.intertechnik.de/Shop/La...oofer/_70303_H28-DCS380-4_1768,de,7053,138674
The inner dimensions of final boxes are 38x62x100 cm (235L) Q=0,7 I'll put some polystester wool inside to kill standing waves I'll connect the two mirror-imaged closed volumes wit a piece of ¤45mm PVC pipe. The boxes are not fixed to each other yet so I can change the width of the slot and the filling of plenums bottom.
Norman, how is your PPSL working?
I have ordered the drivers, I'll get them in early January. Intertechnik had them in stock and cargo is only 15€ (I love EU)
https://www.intertechnik.de/Shop/La...oofer/_70303_H28-DCS380-4_1768,de,7053,138674
Last edited:
For the 380-4 dayton
sealed Qtc .707
Vb= 8.3ft3 (235 litres)
F3 = Fsb = 32.4hz
8mm xmax, 89db 1w/1m
Big box, but seems to be an excellent sealed subwoofer for the money.
The rss390hf is almost twice as expensive for 14mm, but 5.5ft3 box. 2hz less F3 shouldn't be audible. I'd go for 2 of the 380s (especially push pull) over the 390 any day of the week given you can afford the space. I guarantee 2 of those will sound much better than a single 390hf.
I look forward to your results.
sealed Qtc .707
Vb= 8.3ft3 (235 litres)
F3 = Fsb = 32.4hz
8mm xmax, 89db 1w/1m
Big box, but seems to be an excellent sealed subwoofer for the money.
The rss390hf is almost twice as expensive for 14mm, but 5.5ft3 box. 2hz less F3 shouldn't be audible. I'd go for 2 of the 380s (especially push pull) over the 390 any day of the week given you can afford the space. I guarantee 2 of those will sound much better than a single 390hf.
I look forward to your results.
How about sealed PPSL with Linkwitz transform? I know you need more power and decent woofers that can handle a bit of power, and have excellent excursion capabilities. But a much smaller enclosure is the benefit. I have heard a lot of good things with PPSL, but not sure I recall anyone making one WITH LWT. I want to make one. I even have some woofers laying around I could use. I just don't have the money to buy a minidsp right now 
Someone do it!
Someone do it!
I don't think linkwitz transform as good an option anymore since i saw an article where a single peerless with passive radiator (in ideal 4th order) was said to sound better than 4 in a linkwitz transform.
I think excursion is the key.
I'd been leaning towards 2 epic 12's (23mm xmax) in qtc .707 ppsl, vb=3ft3 F3=fsb=45, then linkwitz transform 12db so boosted F3 now around 22hz........ but 2 of them could be placed in a ported 6ft3 box with f3=tuning=25hz, and i bet would sound better. 12db boost is a bunch of excursion (more cone excursion = more harmonic distortion), while the ported would be moving less under 40hz and not much at all at 25hz if i can get big enough ports !!!!
The rss390hf needed 200 watts to skip past xmax with its sealed 5.5ft3 qtc .707 and F3=31hz. It looks to be one of the best sealed options currently availiable.
norman
I think excursion is the key.
I'd been leaning towards 2 epic 12's (23mm xmax) in qtc .707 ppsl, vb=3ft3 F3=fsb=45, then linkwitz transform 12db so boosted F3 now around 22hz........ but 2 of them could be placed in a ported 6ft3 box with f3=tuning=25hz, and i bet would sound better. 12db boost is a bunch of excursion (more cone excursion = more harmonic distortion), while the ported would be moving less under 40hz and not much at all at 25hz if i can get big enough ports !!!!
The rss390hf needed 200 watts to skip past xmax with its sealed 5.5ft3 qtc .707 and F3=31hz. It looks to be one of the best sealed options currently availiable.
norman
Last edited:
The easy way to boost a closed cabinet sub is to use a Hypex plate amp - I use DS2.0 These have an adjustalble gain up to 6db, lowest 20Hz. The amp has fixed highpass@12Hz. This means that instead of -10dB at 20Hz I'll have -4dB@20Hz. That might be too much asked for the Classic Dayton, but a RSS390 would do that easily
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Some overnight sensations... I put in parameters now a little differently, following instructions in this thread Hornresp for Dum... hmm... Everyone - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
Some changes, I show comparasion of ppsl slot loading effect vs. standarnd sealed, ppsl is thick line. Both simulations with rear chamber reflections causing the trouble at 180Hz (no problem really because of high-pass at 80Hz
There is 2dB slot loading gain at 15-38Hz, wow. But the spl curve is more even than conventional sealed.
My configuration is not fixed, I can easily turn the boxes around and voilá I get 2 separate 15" sealed subs.
- Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.comSome changes, I show comparasion of ppsl slot loading effect vs. standarnd sealed, ppsl is thick line. Both simulations with rear chamber reflections causing the trouble at 180Hz (no problem really because of high-pass at 80Hz
There is 2dB slot loading gain at 15-38Hz, wow. But the spl curve is more even than conventional sealed.
My configuration is not fixed, I can easily turn the boxes around and voilá I get 2 separate 15" sealed subs.
Attachments
Last edited:
Norman, yep the 100cm deep cabinet. I'm not at home now but I did a simulation without rear chamber effects too, but only in one direction. This backwave makes huge effect to phase, it disturbes me even more than spl hump.
Hornresp is really pain in the @ss because it reveals box problems. I intend to put an IKEA summer matrass worth of stuffin in the box, I hope that helps a bit.
Hornresp is really pain in the @ss because it reveals box problems. I intend to put an IKEA summer matrass worth of stuffin in the box, I hope that helps a bit.
Some more clarification of Hornresp graphs. I did several iteration using differnent values for the throat segment (plenum in this case) The depth of the plenum determines the frequency of "hump", the area of plenum it's magnitude and sloit loading effect.
If the L12 is set to 20cm, the hump moves to 320Hz. and phase shift from 80 to 90Hz.
Here is what Hornresp gives to conventional closed box, no plenum, chamber reflection masked/not masked
If the L12 is set to 20cm, the hump moves to 320Hz. and phase shift from 80 to 90Hz.
Here is what Hornresp gives to conventional closed box, no plenum, chamber reflection masked/not masked
Attachments
I played a little with www.hunecke.de Loudspeaker Calculator to find the position for second sub and to find best listening position and height.
It seems that the position of my new PPSL sub is almost worst possible. Too bad I can't move it. The second sub is on top of the bookshelf at 2m height and in the corner, it helps substantially. Third sub doesn't help any more really. The listening height seems to be very critical, I must keep my ears at 85-90cm (preferably the lower the better). The worst is 115cm.
The best position for a sub is in the middle of the room or on the long side near wall.
It seems that the position of my new PPSL sub is almost worst possible. Too bad I can't move it. The second sub is on top of the bookshelf at 2m height and in the corner, it helps substantially. Third sub doesn't help any more really. The listening height seems to be very critical, I must keep my ears at 85-90cm (preferably the lower the better). The worst is 115cm.
The best position for a sub is in the middle of the room or on the long side near wall.
Attachments
Last edited:
what ?????????
keep your simulations, I'll keep my ears.
yes room modes are a tremendous pain. Just sit where you want and move sub till you like how it sounds then reverse the 2, or keep a sub (ideally somewhere between the front speakers) then move around till it sounds good and you sit there. I find front 1/2 of room ok, then 3/4 back there is no bass, then more as you get to rear wall. And how high matters 2. I like the sound of my dual 15's (as a sub) standing up versus laying on the ground.
Room modes are a pain in the ............
It doesn't have to measure flat for you to enjoy it.
Norman
keep your simulations, I'll keep my ears.
yes room modes are a tremendous pain. Just sit where you want and move sub till you like how it sounds then reverse the 2, or keep a sub (ideally somewhere between the front speakers) then move around till it sounds good and you sit there. I find front 1/2 of room ok, then 3/4 back there is no bass, then more as you get to rear wall. And how high matters 2. I like the sound of my dual 15's (as a sub) standing up versus laying on the ground.
Room modes are a pain in the ............
It doesn't have to measure flat for you to enjoy it.
Norman
Last edited:
Norman, have you tried the technique of putting the sub in the position where you are going to listen (on the chair or couch), then walking around and listening for the hot spots? I am going to try that tomorrow. It's too late right now to play bass I may also have to coerce someone into helping me by sitting in listening position (I will be nice, and not ask them to move the sub around) while I move the sub around.
I am going to test with small 8" sub that is easy to hold and move around. With extension cord and high quality 12' car audio RCA cable...
I have limited places I can put the sub. Although there is a huge couch that is not being used, and needs to be raised for easier seating... hmmmm. Sub couch? TL maybe?
I have plans for multiple sub ala Gedde's. I have several salvaged sub amps, and plenty of car subs laying around :/ But nothing built at the moment... Just the small 8 (which I hate)...
I am watching this thread to see what OP Juhazi does, to see what I can learn.
I am curious to see if using the room mode calculator translates well for you as you move sub accordingly...
My sub(s) are for stereo listening only. Some movies, but not important. I can do surround, but don't care. I am over it...
I may also have to coerce someone into helping me by sitting in listening position (I will be nice, and not ask them to move the sub around) while I move the sub around.I am going to test with small 8" sub that is easy to hold and move around. With extension cord and high quality 12' car audio RCA cable...
I have limited places I can put the sub. Although there is a huge couch that is not being used, and needs to be raised for easier seating... hmmmm. Sub couch? TL maybe?
I have plans for multiple sub ala Gedde's. I have several salvaged sub amps, and plenty of car subs laying around :/ But nothing built at the moment... Just the small 8 (which I hate)...
I am watching this thread to see what OP Juhazi does, to see what I can learn.
I am curious to see if using the room mode calculator translates well for you as you move sub accordingly...
My sub(s) are for stereo listening only. Some movies, but not important. I can do surround, but don't care. I am over it...
TMHutson, the way you are testing is a very good and practical procedure.
I've done these many different simulations because I still have to wait for the drivers and I simply can't do any measurements!
My bench sub is so huge that I have no other option for placement. I'm asking for trouble! I just checked that I'd have to cut both my now finished cabinets by 15cm to fit the long side of my room (left seen from listening sofa) The right side is covered with a bookshelf. Well, I could tear it and put my bench sub partially under it... But then the whole room needs rethinking.
Simulations and measurements apply only to one spot. My AVreceiver has Audyssey2 and it uses 3 measurements. I think I'll connect both subs psotiioned as simulated above and let Audyssey do EQ. Then I'll listen to it and make some REW measurements.
But the difficult part is that I'd like to use the sub also with my 2-channel amp, without speaker management. Then my main spekers will get full signal and sub(s) a mono signal lowpassed by the Hypex plate-amp and it's simple EQ. Then I can only move my sofa for the best sound.
Room simulation was inspired by discussions at a Finnish audio forum
I've done these many different simulations because I still have to wait for the drivers and I simply can't do any measurements!
My bench sub is so huge that I have no other option for placement. I'm asking for trouble! I just checked that I'd have to cut both my now finished cabinets by 15cm to fit the long side of my room (left seen from listening sofa) The right side is covered with a bookshelf. Well, I could tear it and put my bench sub partially under it... But then the whole room needs rethinking.
Simulations and measurements apply only to one spot. My AVreceiver has Audyssey2 and it uses 3 measurements. I think I'll connect both subs psotiioned as simulated above and let Audyssey do EQ. Then I'll listen to it and make some REW measurements.
But the difficult part is that I'd like to use the sub also with my 2-channel amp, without speaker management. Then my main spekers will get full signal and sub(s) a mono signal lowpassed by the Hypex plate-amp and it's simple EQ. Then I can only move my sofa for the best sound.
Room simulation was inspired by discussions at a Finnish audio forum
Hi Juhazi,
Post #59: "...My bench sub is so huge that I have no other option for placement..."
How much trouble would it be to move one of the woofer to the end of the bench (corner), and leave the other woofer where it is? That way you'd have two sealed subs, one exciting the room in the middle of the wall, and the other one in a corner. That would change things. Naturally, you'd loose the PPSL function.
Regards,
Post #59: "...My bench sub is so huge that I have no other option for placement..."
How much trouble would it be to move one of the woofer to the end of the bench (corner), and leave the other woofer where it is? That way you'd have two sealed subs, one exciting the room in the middle of the wall, and the other one in a corner. That would change things. Naturally, you'd loose the PPSL function.
Regards,