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Old 1st February 2013, 04:34 AM   #71
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there is no way that the plenum is causing a full rotation in phase shift at 60hz.

I wouldn't use horn response to try to model it.
It is inappropriate for subs.
Let the arguements begin.

Do not worry, it will sound great.


High Efficiency Speaker Asylum

"Just completed a new experiment Push-Pull double 15" subwoofer. This is the best sounding subwoofer that I've ever heard after building sub cabinets for 33 yrs. Love it. Les Hudson "
"At the moment my friend is casting aside his $10,000.00 subwoofer in his theater room for this push-pull double 15"

Stop worrying about modeling it.
It will be fine.
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Old 1st February 2013, 08:48 AM   #72
dctech is offline dctech  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
dctech,
The cabs were made of 21mm spruce plywood and they are closed, the drivers are optimal for closed cabs. The slot cavity has some resonance properties.

Hypex DS2.0 has damping factor 500 - enough?

My other subs are 10" and 8" BR, F6 around 35Hz, commercial subs with plate-amps.


So far I'm still waiting for the drivers....
Sounds like a great match, and nice work on the internal bracing.
That little room is gonna light up like a roman candle!

Always encourages me to see people take the DI part of DIY seriously.
Do It!

Cheers from Vancouver.
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Old 14th April 2013, 04:17 PM   #73
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Wheew... I got this message form Serap yesterday! I ordered the Dayton woofers in December 2012!

Hello Juha,

thank you very much for your order. The Article DCS380-4 is expected end of next week available again.


Have a nice day.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen /With best regards
Intertechnik
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Old 14th April 2013, 06:55 PM   #74
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Old 21st April 2013, 06:26 PM   #75
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Bench sub almost finished!

A quick and dirty installation of two 15" Daytons was performed this weekend. The box was sealed wit E-profile window seal tape. The cover weighs ~40kg which is enough to stop vibrations for normal levels without screwing it. I installed the reverse driver from the inside of the box, this allowed a narrower slot, 110mm (4 3/8"). The plenum was stuffed with a pillow containing polyfill. A solid and airtight filler is needed for the finalized system. Drivers connected in series, other with inverted polarity.

The sound is "unnoticeable" ie. low distortion and low GD. Diffrent sounds and tonalities of basses and kick drums and recording setups/effects are easily noticed. Room modes at 45 - 90Hz are still a problem to be solved. A second sub on the opposing wall should help a lot. Low-end extension is limited by Hypes plate-amplifier's fixed cut-off filter at 12Hz/24dB

The Hypex DS2.0 has an easy job. The level is 9-10 o'clock, no eq, no phase shift, lowpass at 12-15 o'clock. I have connected the Hypex simultaneously to two different amplifiers a AV and a stereoamp by RCAs. The AV amp has Audyssey and selectable LFE Fq, I used 90Hz. The stereoamp feeds Hypex from pre-out's left channel without any filters. Besides measuring sessions, I tune level and xo by ear for each amplifier.

REW-measurements (Onkyo TX-NR509, Audyssey on) fed from desktop pc's headphone out which has some attenuation of lowest and highest Fq. Microhone miniDSP UMIK-1(calibrated).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 15 Dayton and boxes.jpg (124.7 KB, 144 views)
File Type: jpg 2x15 ppsl.jpg (208.7 KB, 140 views)
File Type: jpg 2x15 ppsl ready.jpg (102.6 KB, 134 views)
File Type: png juhazi ht 51 spl 300 6 ms.png (68.9 KB, 135 views)
File Type: png juhazi ht 51 gd 300ms.png (64.1 KB, 128 views)
File Type: png juhazi ht 51 water.png (280.3 KB, 44 views)
File Type: png juhazi ht 51 rt.png (34.6 KB, 34 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 21st April 2013 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 1st May 2013, 03:09 PM   #76
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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I show you more measurments of PPSL470 to show you how much the room, microphone position and amplifier setup mean to the measured amplitude response.

AW-7 Vincent is my closed box SEAS coaxials in stereo running fullrange and with the PPSL sub. The sub had it's Hypex plate-amp's xo and level adjusted to give some more "bottom"

The HT51 system is Onkyo TX-NR509 with same AW-7 front speakers (3) and Amphion Helium2 rear speakers (all set to small), and ppsl470 sub xo at 90Hz and Audyssey optimization run.

mor is: microphone in the middle of the room (140cm height)
ear is: microphone at my ears' position when listening on sofa

Measurements done wit REW, 300ms 1/3 smoothing
Attached Images
File Type: png aw vs avppsl 3 mor.png (44.8 KB, 25 views)
File Type: png aw vs avppsl 3 ear 10db.png (39.0 KB, 18 views)
File Type: png ht51 ppsl ear.png (36.6 KB, 19 views)
File Type: png ht51 ppsl mor.png (33.8 KB, 19 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 1st May 2013 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 1st May 2013, 03:19 PM   #77
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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PPSL470 with stereo and AV setups, measured with the microphone in the middle of the room (minimal room modes' effects)

decay waterfall and spectrum
RT

My room has a serious problem with 45Hz. I think I should open up the ceiling and put some insulation wool there and make it work like a resonator or bass trap
Attached Images
File Type: png ht51 ppsl470 mor decay spectr hl.png (288.2 KB, 17 views)
File Type: png ht51 ppsl470 mor decay.png (264.1 KB, 13 views)
File Type: png ht51 ppsl470 mor rt.png (32.9 KB, 12 views)
File Type: png ht51 ppsl470 mor rt60.png (24.4 KB, 7 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient
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Old 1st May 2013, 03:28 PM   #78
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Here are measurements of the PPSL470 sub in nearfield, 50cm (both with microhone on the foor level) and with the mic at my ear and in the middle of the room

and the effect of xo adjustment (with mic in the middle of the room)
Attached Images
File Type: png ppsl470 near 50 200 mor.png (69.1 KB, 122 views)
File Type: png ppsl470 mor xo effect.png (70.4 KB, 20 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient
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Old 1st May 2013, 03:57 PM   #79
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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When I connected a second auxiliary subwoofer, the dipped area at 60- 100Hz was nicely filled. The aux-sub is situated in the middle of the room's long wall and on the bookself near the ceiling.

Measurement at ear's position with and without the 2nd sub.

Group delay of the PPSL at 300ms is ok to me...
Attached Images
File Type: png ht1ppsl vs aux ear.png (43.9 KB, 16 views)
File Type: png ppsl470 mor gd 300ms 112.png (38.8 KB, 13 views)
__________________
AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 1st May 2013 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 1st May 2013, 06:31 PM   #80
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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New measurements - I moved the auxiliary sub to the opposing short wall but the response at listenig point was better the other way. New measurement of sidewall position with same xo and level settings in both subs.

I have noticed that when I run the Audyssey setup in Onkyo, it changes the subwoofer xo to 40Hz. This results in bad response because the room problems at 40-100Hz are not treated by several drivers putting out same signal from various positions. So I always change manually back to 90Hz after running Audyssey.

Now i can let the speakers sit where they are and just try to fiddle with xo, eq and level.

The 2ch setup must also get the split signal for 2 subs. It is easy to do with a RCA splitter connector.
Attached Images
File Type: png ht51ppsl aux ear side vs end 13.png (44.7 KB, 16 views)
File Type: png ht51ppsl aux ear side vs end 112.png (59.4 KB, 17 views)
__________________
AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 1st May 2013 at 06:36 PM.
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