I was surfin the net today, when i came across something quite peculiar... i saw a company called Powered4Sound claim that they can make 2 6.5" audiobahn's sound like 1 15" sub in a large ported box, but with incredible sq. The subs metered out to 146.5 dB's in a car. Thats freaking amazing. however, there is no information as to how they acheived this... they wont tell for obvious reasons. Their company makes boxes they call the "snail shell" which is basically some sort of bastardized transmission line from what i can tell. I want to know how they made these subs so loud and sound so good. The only information i've been able to come up with is that it has like 17 folds and a membrane... i think. Now obviously, they can't be using the sound directly radiating from the driver; theres just not enough VD so they are obviously doing something to the rear wave, or whatever its called. Only thing i can think of is some sort of frankenstein transmission line/ folded horn, but i dont know what purpose the membrane could serve. Anyone have any ideas on their design? I challenge all of you to figure it out.
Its gonna be tough... i think
Greg Lightfoot
Here look at the videos
http://www.powered4sound.com/p4s meets gately.wmv
and
http://www.powered4sound.com/sixes.wmv
their website for reference
www.powered4sound.com
by the way, the 6 1/2" "super subs" (as i call them) are not it snail shell boxes, they are in some custom thing
Its gonna be tough... i think
Greg Lightfoot
Here look at the videos
http://www.powered4sound.com/p4s meets gately.wmv
and
http://www.powered4sound.com/sixes.wmv
their website for reference
www.powered4sound.com
by the way, the 6 1/2" "super subs" (as i call them) are not it snail shell boxes, they are in some custom thing
Looking at the picture on the website of the Plexiglass Snail-Shell (I assume that's the enclosure we're discussing), it looks almost like a daline with a transmission line that does not taper, but rather expands, towards its terminus. I wonder where they've got their engineer chained up...or maybe they went dumpster-diving at Bose.
(in the Bose Low-Quality Assurance Center, a man sitting at a desk opens a file folder. He reads quickly over the design notes, then promptly dumps the entire folder in the trash.)
Man: "Nope, too high-quality..."
(Actually now that we mention Bose, I wonder, if it can do this with a 6.5" woofer, how would it do with a 5.25? I don't think there are that many good 5.25-inchers made anyway.)
(in the Bose Low-Quality Assurance Center, a man sitting at a desk opens a file folder. He reads quickly over the design notes, then promptly dumps the entire folder in the trash.)
Man: "Nope, too high-quality..."
(Actually now that we mention Bose, I wonder, if it can do this with a 6.5" woofer, how would it do with a 5.25? I don't think there are that many good 5.25-inchers made anyway.)
If those are osunding good at 29hz, that's pretty impressive, but the only reason for doing that, that I can see, is to brag that you're getting that sound from 2 6 1/2 drivers, because you could easily house a 12" in each of those enclosures. I would be more interested if it were done with a much smaller enclosure. Otherwise, I don't see the value in it except for show.
Also I question the authenticity of the notes produced, he claimed to be blasting out 29 hz or something. Now I could hear the note with no problem from the video with my 5.25 sealed w15cy's. Now just for my own test I put a 29hz thru them and blow me, not much at all LOL. So I was hearing harmonics on the vid hmmmmm. I also D/L the missy eliot they played and well the bass on that to me is all thump and no wallop. In other words the the 50-100hz thats impressive but not LOW LOW LOW. Also maybe it was just me, but i think i heard the cones smacking against the endstops with the "29" hz in the car that is.
But on another note two peerless HDS 6.5's produce a surprising amount of bass, and very comfortably fill my room with bass. Now if you had an optomised t-line or something and cabin gain with high excursion drivers this could be possible, take it out of the car and it would probably suck tho. There is a reason why B&W, Martin Logan and REL use BIG drivers in their subs. If this could be done then dont you think manufactures would have done it before, besides if there was a clear cut way of doing this I dont think only a couple of blokes would have figured it out and not the rest of the Loudspeaker engineering world.
But on another note two peerless HDS 6.5's produce a surprising amount of bass, and very comfortably fill my room with bass. Now if you had an optomised t-line or something and cabin gain with high excursion drivers this could be possible, take it out of the car and it would probably suck tho. There is a reason why B&W, Martin Logan and REL use BIG drivers in their subs. If this could be done then dont you think manufactures would have done it before, besides if there was a clear cut way of doing this I dont think only a couple of blokes would have figured it out and not the rest of the Loudspeaker engineering world.
look... I can't believe this....
there witnesses.... one guy with 4 tens says there two 6.5s are louder.... another says its as loud and low as 4 12's....
one guy says it sound like a single 15 or single 18....
another says atleast a 12, or 2 really good 12's and no distortion...
another says it hurts his ears....
I can't see any 6.5's having high enough efficiency and high enough cone excursion and power handeling even with some super dumer box to be able to be compared to 2 15inches....
they say they are giving these 200watts (not sure if thats total, or each) one or 2 15'm might take 500watts.... and have a high efficiency... and be able to move more air.... and thats the key... 29hz is frikkin low...
if 2 6.5s can do this... then 2 8's could make you cry.... (which is actaully what I wanted to... theres a ******** at my school with like a 15inch piece o crap... be nice to show him what a good system sounds like...
also with those 6.5's some guy really knows his stuf.....
it its not like a 15, it has the response and mids of an 8 or a 10 but it sounds like it has the power of like 4 12's powering it....
the mic wouldn't pick up the 29Hz very well....
some people are stupid... if they can't see the speaker, they think its not there... perhaps there is more to this.. perhaps its a trick... I can't ever see 6.5s giving 29Hz at a level that hurts!!!
AHHH!!!!
there witnesses.... one guy with 4 tens says there two 6.5s are louder.... another says its as loud and low as 4 12's....
one guy says it sound like a single 15 or single 18....
another says atleast a 12, or 2 really good 12's and no distortion...
another says it hurts his ears....
I can't see any 6.5's having high enough efficiency and high enough cone excursion and power handeling even with some super dumer box to be able to be compared to 2 15inches....
they say they are giving these 200watts (not sure if thats total, or each) one or 2 15'm might take 500watts.... and have a high efficiency... and be able to move more air.... and thats the key... 29hz is frikkin low...
if 2 6.5s can do this... then 2 8's could make you cry.... (which is actaully what I wanted to... theres a ******** at my school with like a 15inch piece o crap... be nice to show him what a good system sounds like...
also with those 6.5's some guy really knows his stuf.....
it its not like a 15, it has the response and mids of an 8 or a 10 but it sounds like it has the power of like 4 12's powering it....
the mic wouldn't pick up the 29Hz very well....
some people are stupid... if they can't see the speaker, they think its not there... perhaps there is more to this.. perhaps its a trick... I can't ever see 6.5s giving 29Hz at a level that hurts!!!
AHHH!!!!
Well, if we assume that the claims are true, and that the measurement was at like 45hz or so, then what kind of box could they have been using? I know with a basshorn, or transmission line, one can make subs get very loud, low, and accurate, but at the expense of box size, and those boxes are huge that they have the 6.5's in. As for credibility, they are a reputable company, and several people claim to have seen the car, and verified that it is only those speakers being used. so credibility aside, what could one do to make a box sound good and loud, and probablly take up a lot of space? Maybe theyre using multiple transmission lines, or a folded horn/transmissionline bastardized thing. any ideas on the box? What types of advanced box designs are there? TL, folded horn, ABC, bandpass, what else?
Greg
oh, and no, the snailshell is NOT the box used with the 6.5's, it is custom, but im assuming some sort of transmissionline/ horn thing.
Greg
oh, and no, the snailshell is NOT the box used with the 6.5's, it is custom, but im assuming some sort of transmissionline/ horn thing.
Well,
Some lines from me.
I have a Sony Xplod CD head unit and a Macrom amplifier feeding my Jensen Turbine 12 Sub.
It is in a band pass box and can handle 400W. The amp has 380W RMS with 14,4V in the battery.
So, I have this to say:
It is not difficult to make an Earthquake. I've tried a few months ago this with my Laptop PC: with a signal generator, 20 Hz and sine wave, result: normal. All the strucure of my car shakes.
With SQUARE wave, my ears started do wistle!
The point is, the bass in the car was clear sine or square? If it is square, it's very capable of make more noise that 2 x 15" can with sine wave.
Agree?
regards
Pedro Martins
Some lines from me.
I have a Sony Xplod CD head unit and a Macrom amplifier feeding my Jensen Turbine 12 Sub.
It is in a band pass box and can handle 400W. The amp has 380W RMS with 14,4V in the battery.
So, I have this to say:
It is not difficult to make an Earthquake. I've tried a few months ago this with my Laptop PC: with a signal generator, 20 Hz and sine wave, result: normal. All the strucure of my car shakes.
With SQUARE wave, my ears started do wistle!
The point is, the bass in the car was clear sine or square? If it is square, it's very capable of make more noise that 2 x 15" can with sine wave.
Agree?
regards
Pedro Martins
hmm...the pic of the plexiglass enclosure withe that alpine type r (I think) sub looks like a simple backloaded horn. Nothing too special.
Check out http://melhuish.org/audio/enclosurehornrear.htm
for info on backloaded horns
Check out http://melhuish.org/audio/enclosurehornrear.htm
for info on backloaded horns
I think there's nothing exiting at all, i've just loaded dads car with two 6 1/2 sub Ive made last year and it sounds really deap and loud. Ok I dont get my remote jumping on the dash but the windows were shaking alot. I bet it wouldn't be that hard to have 29 hertz loud in a car due to roomgain. Also, using a bigger woofer in a small environment is the same as loading an IB to the otherside of the driver. For exemple, you know those guys who buy their car speakers from ebay and think their system rocks, they just dont know what they're missing because bass is heard 10 feet from the car, inside all you get is vibration due to their sub moving free from left to right hitting sides panels
. 6inchers are just more apropriate to car use and it sounds good to me.
but the windows were shaking alot. I bet it wouldn't be that hard to have 29 hertz loud in a car due to roomgain. Also, using a bigger woofer in a small environment is the same as loading an IB to the otherside of the driver. For exemple, you know those guys who buy their car speakers from ebay and think their system rocks, they just dont know what they're missing because bass is heard 10 feet from the car, inside all you get is vibration due to their sub moving free from left to right hitting sides panels . 6inchers are just more apropriate to car use and it sounds good to me.Banned
Joined 2002
Ok.. well long time ago i bought a kicker c10 witch is the cheapest and the sub was well used and i mean used.
i dropped it into a bandpass box 3 ports 3" x 9"
and well put about 55 watts into it and roasted a friends brand new 15" subwoofer..
heh. it is not the driver it is mainly in the box design..
i dropped it into a bandpass box 3 ports 3" x 9"
and well put about 55 watts into it and roasted a friends brand new 15" subwoofer..
heh. it is not the driver it is mainly in the box design..
The snailshell box works like an ABC (aperiodic bi-chamber) subwoofer enclosure. It's not exactly the same but it is close.
Have any of you guys ever been to a SPL compition? If not you might want to check one out. 146db at 35hz is very very hard to get without a lot of cones, power or a good box.
Have any of you guys ever been to a SPL compition? If not you might want to check one out. 146db at 35hz is very very hard to get without a lot of cones, power or a good box.
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