If I am not listening to movies, how low do I really have to go??? - diyAudio
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Old 4th October 2012, 03:40 AM   #1
djn is offline djn  United States
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Default If I am not listening to movies, how low do I really have to go???

So, we moved a year ago and I am now getting my system tweaked in. I was using JBL E140 woofers but they were terrible for home music.

I have JBL Barzilay cabs that I braced up really well. They ended up with an internal volume of 4.556 ft3. I just got my Lambda TD15X drivers yesterday. When I plug in everything into WinISD it shows an f3 at 40hz. That is with 2 4" ports each 9.5" long.

But I never took the time to fully understand how low I really need to go. The f6 is at 32hz but I can't seem to translate that in my mind to how strong the bass will be.

I have to wait a week before I can get to installing them and can't seem to stop my mind from wondering how they will sound. Tks, D.
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Old 4th October 2012, 04:37 AM   #2
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I would think -6dB at around 30 Hz is pretty good. Keep it closer the wall and that would increase with room gain. You might need to experiment to make sure you don't get a big peak and cause the bass to boom.
Most music wouldn't have anything below 31 Hz I think. Some organ music does go down to 16 Hz or so but that's quite rare. I think -3db at 40 Hz would sound quite satisfying.
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Old 4th October 2012, 04:59 AM   #3
witwald is offline witwald  Australia
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An f3 at 40 Hz is quite reasonable. However, I prefer to have an f3 of around 30 Hz to better reproduce the full low-frequency sound spectrum that is contained in many recordings. I believe that the lowest note on a grand piano is at approximately 30 Hz, so an f3 at about that frequency would be attenuating the response somewhat. A grand piano is a relatively common instrument, so being able to reproduce its frequency spectrum faithfully seems to be a reasonable requirement for high-fidelity sound reproduction.

Ideally, I'd like to see an f3 of around 20 Hz or so in any high-fidelity speaker system. This generally necessitates the use of a subwoofer.

Last edited by witwald; 4th October 2012 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 4th October 2012, 07:31 AM   #4
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Ideally, my drivers want 8ft3 then tune / F3 of 31hz. Instead I put them both in 8ft3 and tune to 27hz. Sounds way better than 40hz tuning. Changes from bump bump to thump thump.

I like double 15's for Sade's "Somebody already broke my heart". It just sounds better, even at low volume, moving all that air, compared to an 8" that measures flat down to below 50hz.

Then again, I had some acoustat 11's. The 10" sealed bass module, while not loud at all, seemed to go deeeeeep.

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Old 4th October 2012, 11:31 AM   #5
DrDyna is offline DrDyna  United States
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IMO, it really depends on what types of music you like. For myself, I have a fairly broad range of stuff I listen to. I can put my hands on at least a dozen discs in my collection which you'd be doing a disservice to if you didn't have subs that played right down to the low 20's, or lower if you listen to some types of electronica.

If you raise the threshold to tracks that dip below the "you only need to go down to 35 for music" claim I see quite a bit, that number inflates drastically.
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Old 4th October 2012, 02:09 PM   #6
djn is offline djn  United States
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Thanks all. I also have a wide range of music and some of it has fairly beefy bass and sub bass. Since my box size and speaker placement is fixed, I think an adjustable port system will help with tuning the speakers to the room. I also have all the material to build 12 bass traps/reflection absorbers. I know my room has some suck out and boom boom points. I think making the panels first will benefit with tuning the speakers.
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Old 4th October 2012, 08:16 PM   #7
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With most basses now having a fifth low B string (31 Hz compared to 40 Hz for a 4 string low E) 30 Hz response is missed once you hear it.

I'm using sealed subs in my living room, their response goes flat below 20 Hz.

My ported kitchen sub (Fb 40 Hz), though a bit louder, seems a bit lacking in LF response with much music by comparison.

I'd suggest lowering your box Fb to around 30 Hz (or even lower if you can stand the efficiency loss), there is quite a lot of musical content down to the 25 Hz range in pop music now.
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Old 4th October 2012, 09:24 PM   #8
djn is offline djn  United States
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Hi Welter. how do I change the Fb (Enclosure resonance)? In WinISD, if I change the tuning freq for my box and driver, the response starts to roll off above 100hz.
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Last edited by djn; 4th October 2012 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 4th October 2012, 10:30 PM   #9
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Droop at higher frequencies does not matter if it matches you overall room
gain characteristic, the same with low tuning depressing mid bass levels.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 4th October 2012, 11:29 PM   #10
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Bass drums and kettle drums benefit significantly from bass that is relatively flat down to 20 HZ. 40HZ is a minimum amount of extension in my opinion. Low bass has a lot of emotional impact, which I love. The trouble with ported boxes, besides the inconsistent damping over frequency, is that it's not wise to try to electronically force them to be flat to a lower frequency using an active EQ ahead of the poweramp. The damping becomes an issue, and the rolloff rate is pretty steep. To acoustically flatten a typical 12 inch woofer in a closed box to 20HZ requires about 20 dB of gain at 20HZ, relative to 100HZ. Closed boxes are smaller, and can be EQ'd however you want.
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