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Old 22nd September 2012, 07:44 PM   #1
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Default Would like to build stereo subs

Tapping this out on my phone.

I have no computer. No HR, no modeling software.

Here are the parameters:

Two separate enclosures, left and right.

Space is a 3 floor townhouse, ground floor living room, concrete pad with vinyl tile, 20' x 16' with 8' ceiling.

Frequency BW: 11hz to 50 hz

Output: 120db in room

I will buy whatever power is appropriate to achive requested output.

Single fold th, height not an issue up to 7', but would like something tall and slender.

Program material: Music from Bach to Beiber, movies from 10,000BC to X-men.

I like the look of the iNukeDSP amps for power, processing and price.

Upper range will be fullrange based on 12lta so a cab less than 20" wide would be nice. Something i can lay down on its side between the fullrange cabs wouldnt be objectionable.

Any questions i haven't answerd?

Looking forward to input.

So the console between the speakers would measure 35"Hx24"Dx72"W for 35cu ft.

Upright cabs could be 84"Hx19"Wx24"D for 22 cu ft ea.
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Last edited by Etocynned; 22nd September 2012 at 11:37 PM. Reason: Tyops
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Old 23rd September 2012, 01:34 AM   #2
GM is offline GM  United States
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You'll need a couple of these kits in design, so might not can meet your performance goals in the desired bulk shape: DTS10 kit is back!!

Danley DTS-10 "Super Spud" DIY kit

GM
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Last edited by GM; 23rd September 2012 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 23rd September 2012, 02:10 AM   #3
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I remember reading about these.

think youve solved it for me, what drivers are those?
Look like Lab12?
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Old 23rd September 2012, 06:22 PM   #4
GM is offline GM  United States
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DSL custom designed for the DTS-10. IIRC, either Tom or Ivan Beaver posted that the Lab 12 wouldn't perform well in it.

GM
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Old 23rd September 2012, 11:56 PM   #5
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Two subs is very smart but running them in stereo is not worthwhile. It actually makes moving them around to tune the room harder and 99% of all recordings are mono below 80 Hz anyway.

11Hz at 120 dB? Why might I ask? Are you doing wildlife research and calling elephants? Or do you really hate everyone within a mile? You are in a townhouse. I would not recommend a sub at all. Your walls are pretty much totally transparent to sub frequencies. If you live in any attached dwelling, no sub for you. Respect your neighbor. 50Hz is bad enough. 65Hz after 10 PM.

If you must:
We built a lot of speakers without computers. It just took forever and we had to have a pile of test equipment. It's far more expensive than a cheap computer. A signal generator and wideband ac voltmeter just to do impedance measurements. Step ferq, adjust for exact drive level, record. Step frequency.... try that 100 times and you'l go buy a computer!

The size of the cabinet is picked for the speaker, not ahead of time. Again, with the right documentation you can do the design by hand. You do have White's tables, right? No? Guess you need a computer then to run sims.

I used to think plate amps were fine. I still use a pair of O-Audio plates, but I changed to a traditional big power amp and pro sound crossover for my main system. But then again, my main speakers if they were an OEM would cost about 5 grand. THey are not old car takeouts.

Without measurement equipment ( easier with a commuter) you really won't have a clue how to integrate them into your room well. Boom boom is about the best you will get. Analog non computer test equipment will run you about $50,000 used. A $300 PC, calibrated mic and DIY preamp with free applications will run under $500. There are some fantastic apps on iPhones. I don't have one, but I would not be surprised if you could not build a basic lab with one.

Considering your system, you are starting at the wrong place. Car speakers in cardboard OB can teach you a lot. Been there. Now take that and move forward. The first thing you need to understand is you have nothing between that 50Hz you want and probably 120 now. You need to do a lot of reading, so I guess that means the public library so you can get online.

I hate to keep bringing this up, but speaker design is ENGINEERING. It takes a lot of knowledge, science, and yes, thinking. If you just need a cheap sub, buy a Dayton kit.

Before anyone jumps in on car speakers, yes some are very good. The Pioneer 's I had and a set of Bostons I had were better than a lot of home systems I have heard.
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Old 24th September 2012, 04:16 AM   #6
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You make a great point, i was looking at the 120db number and it is kind of incredible.

basically i want a couple subs to fill the 2 octaves below 50 hz, id say 90 to 100 db output @ the lower knee would be astounding.

I gave the dimensions of the space because engineering is a synthisis of all the elements required to create an object. It is almost unique among scientific disciplines, which tend to be destructive in their goals.

i will be using a 12" fullrange cabinet which has been seen to have response to 50 hz and a high (97db/1w) sensitivity.

Hoffmans Iron Law requires us to pick 2 of: size, extension, or output sensitivity. I chose extension and sensitivity at the expense of size.

I have built my own speakers before, 6 1/2 1.5 way qb3 floorstanders based on radioshack drivers. I used Loudspeaker design cookbook to arrive at the alignment and chose vent dimensions based on pipe velocities.

Used a calculator and a pad of paper.

This was at the time when my best friend was chatting on BBS's and i thought it was the weirdest thing ever. Whoda thunk that would lead to this?

As for the cardboard OB, im often stunned by them, the low end they produce kind of befuddles me and they are far from flat in their FR. However they have a relaxed launch that beguiles me.

Its the exact thing i was looking for since i heard my first pair of electrostats, Arius i by ML, about 19 yrs ago. Ive been trying to get back to that musicality ever since.

I'm a musician, clarinet/ bass clarinet, and i know how to listen and i've got a very specific goal.

I love the community here and all the input so thx again all.
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Old 24th September 2012, 11:08 AM   #7
DrDyna is offline DrDyna  United States
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You could use one of bjorno's T-TQWT enclosures if you're looking for ~100 db. They are usually a single fold, small footprint and tall - and sound great.
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