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Old 19th September 2012, 11:48 PM   #11
ODougbo is offline ODougbo  United States
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This was one fellows DIY design, it grew into a group design/build.

Crazy low bass, they just sound fantastic in the HT. Also have one in a 2.1

cost? $8 woofers ($32 total) - wood $25 - white fill $5
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Old 20th September 2012, 12:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
A lot of considerations. Here are some more.

You can't make a good sub unless you can measure the results. But a sound-level meter is cheap and software free.
will try and get hold of one.

Quote:
There's no way to create a low-level crossover that ends up doing what you ultimately need it to do; among other reasons, you are never sure what you'll need till you start try-outs. Therefore, you have to use an extra amp for the sub (cheap and good second-hand) and a variable electronic crossover (the Behringer for $160 is quite marvelous and does many tricks).
Ben
what tricks-features are you referring to that it has.
I was looking at something like Behringer iNuke 1000 for $250 - Is it any good?

Quote:
There is no cleaner driver I know than the Peerless. XXLS. At least not one I can pay for.
looking at 2 drivers at max of $300 bucks. That one costs $250.

Quote:
One mixed-bass sub is all anybody needs. FAR better to have one good sub than two so-so quality. But very helpful to have a second sub in a different part of the room even if not a great sub. With the Behrenger, you can tailor the response quite a bit till it sounds right to you (which is unlikely to be flat to the mic).
which driver and which design would you suggest? I am currently leaning towards a dual opposed in phase. If you have a different design suggestion, what are its pros and cons.

Last edited by ShaQBlogs; 20th September 2012 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 20th September 2012, 01:13 PM   #13
Samyk is offline Samyk  Germany
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I don't know what woofers are available in india, but the Peerless XXLS are quite nice.

But as you said, you prefer quality over maximum level. In this case you have to consider the room acosutics. You room will add a lot of bass on certain points due to standing waves. This will produce a lot of boom and therefor music won't be very accurate concerning low frequency signals.

A way to minimize the effect is using two woofers in stead of one. The should be placed at the front of the room, 1/4 room width away from the side walls.

You should go for two 8 inch high excursion woofer in a closed box enclosure. Wire them in parallel to a sub amp, which includes an a low pass, bass eq and a high pass, to protect the woofer.

The closed box design helps to reduce the boomyness. The decreased output level at lower frequencies can be compensated, by using the eq if wanted.


If you like, give me the internet adress of a shop selling speaker in india, to help you picking the best suiting driver / amp and calculate a box for it.

Gre
Martin
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Old 20th September 2012, 02:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samyk View Post
A way to minimize the effect is using two woofers in stead of one. The should be placed at the front of the room, 1/4 room width away from the side walls.
Could you clarify, if you referring to dual opposed or some other design?
Wouldnt dual subs help to even out my response, or would a small room cause issues here?

Quote:
You should go for two 8 inch high excursion woofer in a closed box enclosure. Wire them in parallel to a sub amp, which includes an a low pass, bass eq and a high pass, to protect the woofer.
any specific you recommend 8 and not 12 or 15.

Quote:
If you like, give me the internet adress of a shop selling speaker in india, to help you picking the best suiting driver / amp and calculate a box for it.
I had a quick look. DIY'ers usually have this shipped.
I know Infinity harmen kappa is available here. I think Peerless 12" is also available.

can you suggest a few drivers, will check out what is feasible.
How good are Dayton Audio Reference drivers

Last edited by ShaQBlogs; 20th September 2012 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 20th September 2012, 03:16 PM   #15
Samyk is offline Samyk  Germany
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Hi,

i meant two single enclosures with one 8 inch woofer. 10 inch would be okay as well, but considering the size of your room i wouldn't go up further. I don't know how much bass you would like to have and for what purpose you will use the subs (music, cinema, both?) But you won't use the higher volume output.

I mentioned the 8", because of your limited budget. Better buy two small 8" /10" woofer with good specs, than one big 12/ 15" driver with less better perfomance.

The best way to place the subwoofer in the room looks like this: http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7...itionenga2.jpg

but you can move them closer to the front wall, it will still be way better than just one sub.

The Dayton Audio Reference woofer you mentioned are very good.

I did a quick simulation with the 8ohm RSS265HF-8. Put each of these into a 2500 in cabinet and you will have good clean base, without the need of equalization. The -3dB point will be at 35hz. The room will add the rest down to 25hz. If you need more bass, you can eq it easily because of the high excursion und excellent power handling.

Each driver costs around 150$ and you can spend another 200$ for the amp. I don't know about the plateamps outside europe, but the Monacor Sam-2 or Detonation DT150 will nicely do the job. Both have an adjustable bass eq.
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Old 20th September 2012, 04:50 PM   #16
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The best location of the second sub is to have it different from the first in every way you can think of. That symmetrical layout link above does not seem right.

Ben
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Old 20th September 2012, 05:23 PM   #17
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODougbo View Post
This was one fellows DIY design, it grew into a group design/build.

Crazy low bass, they just sound fantastic in the HT. Also have one in a 2.1

cost? $8 woofers ($32 total) - wood $25 - white fill $5

Doug: could you remind us again of which project this was? - cheap and compact footprint is always good

Ben: a couple of generalizations in your posts this thread that might not apply in all cases- in the end each room will tell you, in her own special way, the optimal number and locations of "subs" and even XO frequencies for the particular application.


A lot of good research on the subject by Toole and Geddes

And as much as I hate to throw the wet blanket of DAF compromise on the subject, sometimes less than optimal locations are the only ones available - I'm able to survive with a pair of corner located subs in a little 5.1 system (all FR drivers), and a single corner located in different room.
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Old 20th September 2012, 06:00 PM   #18
Samyk is offline Samyk  Germany
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Of course you can't always rearange you furniture to place the subwoofer and speaker at the best sounding position. I posted the picture to show ShaQBlogs what i ment with
Quote:
A way to minimize the effect is using two woofers in stead of one. The should be placed at the front of the room, 1/4 room width away from the side walls
You always have to find the correct place by yourself. And it is correct, that every room is different. But the nice thing with having two separate subs instead of one is, you can do a lot to reduce room modes. This is especially important concerning music reproduction.

I can't find the white paper concerning subwoofer placement in which the optimal position is explained. But i thin it was pbulished by Toole. I will have a look tomorrow.
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Old 20th September 2012, 06:05 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Samyk View Post
I don't know how much bass you would like to have and for what purpose you will use the subs (music, cinema, both?) But you won't use the higher volume output.
My use is music - 75, movies - 25.
I would like to have higher volumes and have it go down low too...but if there is some compromise needed, it is in low bass and power, in the same order (size is not an issue till 25 x 25 x 25).

I am basically looking for a music first sub and hence a corresponding driver. I was told dayton is a good choice and read many reviews. Not sure if there are better available at no more than $150 a piece ($200 only if there is something really in it to gain).

Quote:
i meant two single enclosures with one 8 inch woofer. 10 inch would be okay as well, but considering the size of your room i wouldn't go up further.
...
I mentioned the 8", because of your limited budget. Better buy two small 8" /10" woofer with good specs, than one big 12/ 15" driver with less better perfomance.
I am currently leaning towards the Dayton reference drivers, either 10" or 12".

I was recommended infinity drivers. And they are available at a decent price here back home. Are these car drivers any use for my intended use?

Quote:
I did a quick simulation with the 8ohm RSS265HF-8. Put each of these into a 2500 in cabinet and you will have good clean base, without the need of equalization. The -3dB point will be at 35hz. The room will add the rest down to 25hz. If you need more bass, you can eq it easily because of the high excursion und excellent power handling.
Any particular reason you are suggesting a single driver sealed over a dual driver sealed version?
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Old 20th September 2012, 06:19 PM   #20
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I wouldn't bother with sealed 8"ers - IMHO, that combination isn't great - you'll run out of excursion very quickly below 40Hz.

Which Infinity drivers are available?
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