Driver recommendation for home stereo use

stan · 2012-09-01 8:09 am

Driver recommendation for sealed box home stereo

Hi,
I'm building two subwoofers for home stereo use.

Requirements:
- Play as high as 120Hz (12db/oct) with great quality.
- Very humble SPL.
- Maximum sound quality in terms of transient response and distortion.
- I listen to classical and jazz music, little bass content but distortion is very apparent.

Resources:
- Digital control of the source signal, can produce any filter easily.
- 150W per channel.
- $400-$500 for drivers.
- Two box options: Existing 1.3 cu. ft sealed boxes (preferable) or any size sealed boxes up to 3 cu. ft. if needed.

I am considering the following drivers:
- Vifa NE:
Vifa NE265W-08 10" Subwoofer Speaker 264-1140
- Peerless XLS:
Peerless 830452 10" XLS Subwoofer 264-1108
- Peerless XXLS:
Peerless 835017 12" Aluminum Cone XXLS Subwoofer 264-1114
- TC Sounds 'Epic':
TC Sounds Epic 10" DVC Subwoofer 293-656

Other recommendations are welcome.

I'm considering 10" or 12", I believe 10" will have better chance to fit my existing small boxes.

My questions:
1. What do you think of this arrangement?
2. Which driver is best for my current boxes (1.3 cu. ft.)?
3. Which driver is best for any box at all? (and how big should I make it?)

Thanks!

jned · 2012-09-01 8:47 am

Eminence LAB 12 Professional 12" Subwoofer Speaker 290-570

This is my next project driver, going to try and fit it to my sealed box

tvrgeek · 2012-09-02 4:50 pm

I can't say enough good about my Peerless XXLS 12 inch subs. They are the older paper/carbon, but I hear the newer metal are even better. I run 60L sealed. As mine are SUBS, they sit remote from my mains and I cross over at 60 Hz LR4. If you are building a big floor-stander 3 way, they they are one of the few subs that is good to 200 for real, so I would not hesitate to try 120 LR2. If they are remote from the mains, then you will not like that high a crossover at all.

Model them in WinISL and see which do what.

tb46 · 2012-09-03 12:03 am

Hi stan,

Post #1: "... Very humble SPL.
- Maximum sound quality in terms of transient response and distortion...."

How about the Dayton Audio RSS210HF-4 8"? I might just fit into your 1.3 ft^3 current boxes,or you could get ambitious, and build a sealed dual driver PP box (one driver in the front, and one inverted in the back). Use a Linkwitz transform circuit to flatten and control the bottom end, and you might just surprise yourself.

Regards,

stan · 2012-09-03 7:08 am

I see the new 12" XXLS has nearly double the Qts as 12" XLS, so it's probably not suitable for the small box.

bjorno · 2012-09-03 12:13 pm

stan said:
I see the new 12" XXLS has nearly double the Qts as 12" XLS, so it's probably not suitable for the small box.

Hi,

If you choose the Peerless 830517 or P830517 driver and use a box volume of 2.2 resp 1.9 Cu.Ft. you will end up with an f-3dB of ~40 Hz and a Qtc of ~0.7.

IMO a far better design targeting SQ would be:

The first picture:

If the sub must be a low distortion closed design: I recommend you to consider: The second of pictures.

QUINT | Subwoofer

b

stan · 2012-09-04 3:48 am

bjorno said:
Hi,

IMO a far better design targeting SQ would be: The first picture:

b

I don't think my building is earthquake resistant, and I don't have a weapon permit anyway.

stan · 2012-10-01 4:25 am

Thanks all for advice.
I've bought Peerless XLS-12 woofers (830500) in 1.5 cu. ft. sealed boxes.
I find the sub-bass range performance very good, the sound is "tight" and articulate and suitable for classical music.

However I'm unable to achieve my original design goal, high crossover point.
When I cross them at 125hz (LR4), sub-bass output is reduced. It's as if the 125hz signal sucks the life out of them.
Crossing at 100hz (lowest I can go) gives ample sub-bass but doesn't let my mids play as loud as I wanted.

bjorno · 2012-10-01 8:54 am

stan said:
Thanks all for advice.
I've bought Peerless XLS-12 woofers (830500) in 1.5 cu. ft. sealed boxes.
I find the sub-bass range performance very good, the sound is "tight" and articulate and suitable for classical music.

However I'm unable to achieve my original design goal, high crossover point.
When I cross them at 125hz (LR4), sub-bass output is reduced. It's as if the 125hz signal sucks the life out of them.
Crossing at 100hz (lowest I can go) gives ample sub-bass but doesn't let my mids play as loud as I wanted.

Hi,

You probably have a simple phase issue.

b

bjorno · 2012-10-01 3:59 pm

bjorno said:
Hi,

You probably have a simple phase issue.

b

Hi,

Correction: The picture posted in Post #9 is depicting a fictive sub-sub added to the supposed 1.5 cu. Feet. using the Peerless 830500 Driver I thought was more of a mid-bass..

Here-below is the picture I first made and used as a template for the picture here-above:

Sorry for posting in wrong order.

b

Bill poster · 2012-10-01 4:10 pm

2 sealed subs, small box, light cone, low F3/F6- if the amp is reasonably powerful, I can't think of a better driver than the Dayton RSS210. If sound levels aren't an issue, the Hivi M8n is very good.

4Torr · 2012-10-03 6:44 am

stan said:
Thanks all for advice.
I've bought Peerless XLS-12 woofers (830500) in 1.5 cu. ft. sealed boxes.
I find the sub-bass range performance very good, the sound is "tight" and articulate and suitable for classical music.

However I'm unable to achieve my original design goal, high crossover point.
When I cross them at 125hz (LR4), sub-bass output is reduced. It's as if the 125hz signal sucks the life out of them.
Crossing at 100hz (lowest I can go) gives ample sub-bass but doesn't let my mids play as loud as I wanted.

4Torr · 2012-10-03 6:55 am

Your box is too large to be sealed with this driver. You will need to add a port.
A 3" dia 10" long port ( 32Hz) flared at both ends would flatten the frequency response and give you the sound quality you're looking for.

bjorno · 2012-10-03 12:50 pm

4Torr said:
Your box is too large to be sealed with this driver. You will need to add a port.
A 3" dia 10" long port ( 32Hz) flared at both ends would flatten the frequency response and give you the sound quality you're looking for.

Agree with that provided that the OP never exceeds an input power of 7 W Rms or stay below 100dB SPL..at any time... when lining the box with no more than~ 50 g of damping material.

b

4Torr · 2012-10-03 1:56 pm

bjorno said:
Agree with that provided that the OP never exceeds an input power of 7 W Rms or stay below 100dB SPL..at any time... when lining the box with no more than~ 50 g of damping material.

b

I stand by my recommendation. The Peerless XLS-12 830500 woofers are designed for a vented or passive radiator box. You will never realize the driver's great potential sealed without massive EQ. The symptoms Stan describes are in line with the early bass roll off and poor efficiency in the low bass vs the midbass (125hz) that you would experience with a sealed box.
As for input power, you would need far less with a reflex enclosure. With port damping and 12mm Xmax, the Peerless will play loudly without distortion.

feket663 · 2012-10-08 11:32 am

Bill poster said:
2 sealed subs, small box, light cone, low F3/F6- if the amp is reasonably powerful, I can't think of a better driver than the Dayton RSS210. If sound levels aren't an issue, the Hivi M8n is very good.

Dear Bill! As I seen, you has Dayton RSS210. Can you send me some info, how many the recommended box size for this woofer? I'm planning build a pair of similar subs for my 4PI speakers (98 dB/w) with Wayne Parham's flanking subs configuration. AudioRoundTable.com: Speaker => The Subwoofer thing

Thanks for help!

Bill poster · 2012-10-08 8:26 pm

It's a low sensitivity driver, make sure the amp is powerful enough. If sealed it will work well in a 30 litre box and as little as 20 litres is ok according to winisd

LinearTeam

feket663 · 2012-10-09 4:38 am

Bill poster said:
It's a low sensitivity driver, make sure the amp is powerful enough. If sealed it will work well in a 30 litre box and as little as 20 litres is ok according to winisd

LinearTeam

Thank you very much!

Bill poster · 2012-10-09 12:05 pm

it depends on your system requirements, space etc. If you need a sub with high sensitivity then Torr's recommendation is good.
They arent subwoofers but the CSS 10" are beautifully made and work v well in 40 L sealed and high sensitivity - two wd be better

norman bates · 2012-10-09 12:40 pm

push-pull

I don't care if it is sealed, tranny line, 4th order, 6th order assisted, or whatever.

Not isobarik.

Norman

Driver recommendation for home stereo use

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