Is a horn in my jeep the best solution? - diyAudio
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Old 30th July 2012, 02:53 AM   #1
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Coffs Harbour NSW 2450
Default Is a horn in my jeep the best solution?

Hi guys, nothing here is set in stone. more, long the lines of an open discussion.

my mate and i feel that a horn tuned around the resonant frequency of the cabin of a vehicle will give the highest gain for max SPL in attempt to win sound offs relatively easily.

so my first Q, is ^^ this mind set correct in thinking a horn works like this in a small space?

second, will i be able to maintain a degree of fidelity in order to have war volume, but also have good range of sound coming out of it? as in, his sub is designed to be a one note wonder, and it does it well, but sucks musically. iv always loved my musical sounding subs, and generally make them go pretty well and also sound good. but this time i want to try something new. I have a pair of SS15 Jbell horns. and I LOVE THEM, and want something similar in my Jeep XJ cherokee for when im out in the bush.

here is my layout.

Click the image to open in full size.


and i have two Pioneer TWS254C subs

Dia 10 in.
Z 4.0 W
Zmax 47.76 W
Re 3.0 W
fs 27.9 Hz
Qms 6.539
Qes 0.467
Qts 0.436
Vas 1.735 ft3/49.13 Liters
Sd 0.373 ft2/0.0346 M2
BL 11.574 TM
Cms 289.1 m /N
Mms 112.27 Grams
Rms 3.019 Ns/m
VC Ht. 1.106 in./28 mm
Air gap 0.349 in./10 mm
Xmax 0.36 in./9.1 mm
le 1.93 mH
VC dia. 1.57 in./40 mm
Displ. 0.044 ft3/1.26 Liters
Sens 87.0 dB
Pwr (rms) 250 Watts
Pwr (max) 500 Watts


any suggestions?

Edit:

ive been bored, so was playing around with hornresp. tell me if im wrong with my numbers, but i was pretty good at geometry in school so like to think i got that part right at least.

here is a horn loosely based on the SS15 (Jbell) folding pattern to suit the space in the back of my jeep.

Click the image to open in full size.

edit2: forgot to mention, thats 2x drivers there.^^
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Old 30th July 2012, 06:15 AM   #2
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No.

A horn is a quarter wave resonator; in other words, the tuning frequency is dictated by the horn length divided by four.

If you play around with Hornresp, you'll begin to think that u can get big SPL by putting a horn in a car. But this isn't the case. If you want big SPL, use THE ENTIRE CAR as a quarter wave resonator.

Here's why this is superior:

1. Efficiency and box size are connected. When you use THE ENTIRE CAR as the enclosure, you get huge SPL.
2. By using the whole car, you have the luxury of using more drivers than is practical in a horn sub.

The downside to all of this is that you may have to buy a car explicitly because it's quarter wavelength resonance is a good match for an SPL car. Generally, the best cars are small and airtight. (there's a reason that CRXs and pickup trucks post big numbers. If the cab is too big or the cabin leaks, you lose SPL)

Check out my thread on 'bass weapons' for more info, on my forum
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Old 30th July 2012, 06:20 AM   #3
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based on the 1/4 wave you have described, 30hz has a WL of 11.46m. 1/4 = 2.865m
so 1.6 of that is cabin length, leaving 1.2 for the horn, of which is currently 2.8m (inside the box.)

is that correct?
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Old 30th July 2012, 06:21 AM   #4
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id be measuring the SPL at the "mouth" which i simluated to be including the cabin expansion as well (roughly i know) which would be where id be sitting in the drivers seat.
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Old 30th July 2012, 06:35 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klampykixx View Post
based on the 1/4 wave you have described, 30hz has a WL of 11.46m. 1/4 = 2.865m
so 1.6 of that is cabin length, leaving 1.2 for the horn, of which is currently 2.8m (inside the box.)

is that correct?
A front loaded horn has two components. First, there's a sealed box with a woofer in it. Second, there's a horn.

The reason you can get big SPL in a car from a sealed box is that THE ENTIRE CAR acts like a horn. (IE, the car is a quarter wave resonator)

Why bother putting a horn in a car when the car serves the same function?

And believe me, this is coming from someone who put horn subs in cars for YEARS

Just check out some of my projects on DIYMA and this forum. I have a ton of experience with horns in cars, and I'm telling you, they are NOT the way to get SPL in a car.

The exception to that statement is if you're trying to post big numbers above 100hz or so. Above 100hz, car horns have a lot of value. But at subwoofer frequencies? Not so much.
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Old 30th July 2012, 07:53 AM   #6
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does it matter that its a tapped horn, not a front loaded horn? im looking in your section now.
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Old 30th July 2012, 08:03 AM   #7
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i have another Q based on what youve said, do you think that the simulated results are going to be completely different within the vehicle?
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Old 30th July 2012, 08:48 AM   #8
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a couple of friends with 4wd's have talked me out of doing it.

perhaps one day, ill build a proper sound off rig of some description. extreme class is unlimited, so who knows whats in store....
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Old 30th July 2012, 03:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klampykixx View Post
does it matter that its a tapped horn, not a front loaded horn? im looking in your section now.
Tapped horns are great, but I don't think they'll ever be the ultimate SPL solution due to their bandwidth. Basically bandwidth and efficiency are correlated. A vented box resonates over a narrower bandwidth than a TH, so the peak can be VERY prominent. But the REAL trick with a vented box is the ability to move it around the cabin so that it excites ONE resonance.

This is the same reason that a singers voice can shatter glass, and the Tacoma Narrows bridge collapsed from wind. QWRs are powerful things.

I openly admit that I did a 180 on this about two years ago. Up until 2010 or so I thought tapped horns could be the ultimate SPL solution for a car.
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Old 31st July 2012, 06:55 AM   #10
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so, SPL aside, i feel ive hit the spot response wise, im yet to model a sealed/ported box that is smooth from 35-100hz.

i think based on the sim, that musically, this is as good as it gets.. obviously, im yet to hear it. even build it.

do you agree with that?

Last edited by klampykixx; 31st July 2012 at 06:57 AM.
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