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Old 21st August 2012, 07:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodawg View Post
Awesome, that's very close to what I'm looking to build from that other thread....any pics or design notes? Thanks!
Not much documentation, but the pictures are about all you need. The HF horn angle and center are 20 degree angles, the HF horn entrance is rounded.
The grill is also angled on the top and sides to duplicate the extra flair as seen on the lower part of the HF horn.
Exterior cabinet dimensions are 26.5 x 15 x 11.25 , exterior is 3/4", horn parts are 1/2".
Drivers are Eminence Alpha 6A and APT with the thread to 1" adapter.

A single cabinet can hit around 125 dB in the voice range.

Art Welter
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2x6Ta.jpg (47.1 KB, 394 views)
File Type: jpg 2x6Tfront.jpg (66.8 KB, 387 views)
File Type: jpg 2x6Tpair.jpg (56.8 KB, 378 views)
File Type: jpg 2x6Txover.jpg (109.1 KB, 377 views)
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Old 21st August 2012, 08:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
Not much documentation, but the pictures are about all you need. The HF horn angle and center are 20 degree angles, the HF horn entrance is rounded.
The grill is also angled on the top and sides to duplicate the extra flair as seen on the lower part of the HF horn.
Exterior cabinet dimensions are 26.5 x 15 x 11.25 , exterior is 3/4", horn parts are 1/2".
Drivers are Eminence Alpha 6A and APT with the thread to 1" adapter.

A single cabinet can hit around 125 dB in the voice range.

Art Welter
Wow great stuff, thanks! Looks like I'm going to try something like this with a delta-10a and a econo-waveguide....
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Old 21st August 2012, 10:01 PM   #13
stewin is offline stewin  Kenya
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hi welter you could have chosen to combine the highs and mid in paraline mode. but nice work

~ Sunshine ~ or

Square Pegs
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Old 22nd August 2012, 12:16 AM   #14
Djim is offline Djim  Netherlands
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Hi mRgSr,

Building Tapped Horns for low-mid range is not very useful, efficiency wise. The reason why THs are successful for low frequency use is because traditional bass horns with smaller than ideal mouth, drop there efficiency below wavelength. At higher frequencies an ideal mouth area is easier to obtain since the wavelength becomes smaller. At a frequency of 100 Hz, the quarter wavelength is 'only' 86 cm. Without to much trouble two low-mid horns can have a combined mouth area of 0.74 square metres (1/4 wavelength mouth area for 100Hz).

Secondly, Tapped Horns 'suffer' from a direct signal coming from the tap. At low frequencies this is not a major problem since human hearing is less sensitive at low frequencies. However, when you would design tapped horns for mid-low frequencies, the direct signal can become audible.

Front loaded horns (highest efficiency) or smaller sized bandpass-horns are a better option in my opinion for low-mid range horns.
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Old 22nd August 2012, 01:04 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewin View Post
hi welter you could have chosen to combine the highs and mid in paraline mode. but nice work
Yes I could have, but as I mentioned in post #8, I had toyed with the idea of making a Synergy type horn, but didn't as the depth would not work for the application.

My main line array PA has been using Paraline elements since 2009.
Art
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Old 22nd August 2012, 06:04 AM   #16
stewin is offline stewin  Kenya
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wow. then can you array multiple both vertically or horizontally or they are meant to be a stand alone array ?
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Old 22nd August 2012, 02:10 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by stewin View Post
wow. then can you array multiple both vertically or horizontally or they are meant to be a stand alone array ?
The speakers using the 90 degree horizontal coverage Paraline HF are, as any "line array", designed for vertical arrays.

The small FLH/BR 2x6T described in post #11 can be used on top of another cabinet with the HF horns coupled when more SPL is needed, or side by side splayed when more horizontal coverage is desired.
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Old 22nd August 2012, 11:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodawg View Post
I don't think tapped horns are the way to go (gasp, right?) for midbass, given the cancelations/peaks they have above their narrow passband. Most Kick Bins are small folded horns, but there are some rear vented horns around which I've been looking at....

Altec 816 copies with different woofer and wood?
Now that I've built a bunch of tapped horns, I've actually come around to a way of thinking that's 180 from how I felt years ago.

I think Geddes and John K are right. For ultra-low frequency, you want a monopole. I'll post some pics of my 15hz tapped horn that I destroyed last week.

Basically tapped horns and vented boxes just can't pressurize the room the way a monopole can.



Paradoxically, I think there are a lot of good reasons to use tapped horns in the next band. For instance, a tapped horn that covers 40-160hz. Here's a few:

- A tapped horn can't pressurize a room the way a sealed box can. BUT a tapped horn is more efficient than a sealed box, at least in the passband above the Schroeder Frequency
- The response blips in a tapped horns are completely exaggerated by Hornresp. Hornresp and Akabak sim the boxes as if the sound is emanating from a single point, not a 10" or 12" radiator (or even larger.) In the real world, tapped horn measurements look a lot more like Art's graphs posted earlier in this thread
- If you juggle the variables carefully, a tapped horn can have lower group delay than a vented box, and sometimes even better than a sealed box, particularly if you're using an active crossover to band-limit the output above the lowest impedance peak.




Hope this wasn't too wordy, but basically I think this is a killer combination:

#1 - a monopole for ULF, just like Geddes uses
#2 - tapped horns in the next band. Ideally, two or three. (I don't think anyone is doing this... yet)
#3 - waveguides or monopoles in the band above that.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 07:21 AM   #19
stewin is offline stewin  Kenya
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hi patrick, please post a diagram of a monopole like for an 18" speaker

is a monopole more efficient than a folded horn?
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Old 23rd August 2012, 10:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewin View Post
hi patrick, please post a diagram of a monopole like for an 18" speaker

is a monopole more efficient than a folded horn?
A monopole is any speaker where the rear wave is enclosed. (Sealed box, front loaded horn, single reflex bandpass.)

Of those three types, a plain ol' sealed box has the lowest F3 for a given box size. So if your subwoofer is going in a room or in a car, a plain ol' sealed box is tough to beat.

Yes, this is a complete 180 from how I felt up until 2011 or so, so you can find threads on here and Diyma where I argued the opposite

But John K and Geddes convinced me otherwise.
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